When I lit a laser ray for 10 seconds from a distant planet

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of lighting a laser on a distant planet and the perception of that light on Earth after a significant time delay. Participants explore concepts related to the propagation of light, the nature of electromagnetic waves, and the relationship between the source and the observer over vast distances. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects of light travel, the life cycle of stars, and relativistic effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes lighting a laser for 10 seconds from a planet 4 light-years away and questions whether the light would be detectable on Earth after 4 years.
  • Another participant suggests that if the laser were lit for 1 year, a "column" of light would exist, with the head moving towards Earth at the speed of light and the tail remaining at the source.
  • There is a discussion about whether the light ray can be considered continuous and how it relates to the life of stars, with one participant asking if we can know which stars are currently alive or dead.
  • Some participants propose that the life cycle of stars can be inferred based on the time it takes for light to reach Earth, while others introduce hypothetical scenarios to illustrate the uncertainty of knowing a star's current state.
  • One participant raises the question of Lorentz contraction and whether the length of the light column would be affected by relativistic speeds.
  • Another participant cautions against using a string analogy to describe the light beam, suggesting it may not be appropriate.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the reference frames and the application of Lorentz transformations in the context of light propagation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature of light propagation and the implications of relativistic effects. While there is some agreement on the existence of a light column, the discussion contains competing views on the analogy of light to physical objects and the implications of relativistic physics. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the nature of the light column and the effects of relativistic speeds.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the behavior of light in a vacuum, the effects of potential absorption or reflection, and the complexities of defining simultaneity across different reference frames. The discussion also highlights the dependence on the observer's frame of reference when considering the properties of light and its propagation.

Tareq Naushad
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I am on Alpha 4 light years away from earth. On 1st Jan, 2016 I lit a powerful laser light towards Earth for 10 seconds and then switched it off. My friend on Earth knows that he has to detect that light after 4 years on the night of 1st Jan, 2020 from a space station using a very powerful telescope.

Ignoring the facts that the light will be too faint/not-recognizable etc., assume that the photons traveled smoothly through vacuum space and my friend should be able to detect it because of the powerful laser light and powerful telescope on that night. Will he see the laser beam for 10 seconds in year 2016 coming from that 4 light-years distant planet? Though the original source laser lit only for 10 seconds four years ago?

If yes then what actually happened the moment I turned off the laser after 10 seconds 4 years ago? Is it that 10 seconds * 0.3 million km= a continuous light ray (EM wave) of 3 million km tall traveled for 4 years to reach the lens of my friend's telescope?

The EM wave was detached from all the connections with the original laser light residing on the planet when I switched off. So is it that the distance between the tail of the light ray and the planet increased for 4 years till the ray hit the telescope lens of my friend for 10 seconds? OR is it that although laser was turned off after 10 seconds in 2016 but the total length of the light ray(EM wave) increased continuously with its tail always on planet alpha and moving towards Earth so finally maintained a continuous length of 4 light-years before hitting the telescope lens of earth?

Actually I am curious about the life and length of the 10 sec ray.
 
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Let's say, instead of 10 seconds he left it lit for 1 year (doesn't change the concepts, just makes the units easier). On 1 Jan 2016 you start the laser, all that year there is a "column" of light whose head is moving away from Alpha at c and whose tail is on Alpha. On 2017 he turns off the laser and there is a detached column 1 light year long, both ends moving towards Earth at c. At 2018 the head of the column reaches the halfway point, and the tail is one light year from Alpha. At 2020 the head reaches Earth and the tail is 1 light year away. Etc.
 
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Thanks Mr. Dale. So I understand a continuous light ray of 1 light-year long or 10 sec long should exist based on the duration of the laser light. If I keep it lit for 4+ years then on Earth in 2020 I have the head of ray at my telescope and the tail at Alpha . That means I am virtually touching a string whose one-end is on Earth and another end is on alpha. Can I assume in this case EM wave is continuous without any break if it was not absorbed/reflected by any object in its journey through vacuum? For all the lights coming from distant stars (not dead yet) are we connected virtually by this way? Is there any way to know which stars are dead now and which are alive at this moment?
 
Tareq Naushad said:
Is there any way to know which stars are dead now and which are alive at this moment?

Sure. We know a great deal about the life cycle of stars and essentially every star you can see within our galaxy has not had enough time pass between the emission of its light and that light's arrival here on Earth for it to have ceased existing. This is especially true for stars under about 8-10 solar masses (the overwhelming majority of stars) since they do no undergo supernova, instead slowly collapsing into white dwarfs and then cooling off over billions of years.
 
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Tareq Naushad said:
Is there any way to know which stars are dead now and which are alive at this moment?
Perhaps you can think of a mad scientist sitting near a remote star with his finger on a detonator button. He flips a coin. Heads, he will blow up the star. Tails, he will go elsewhere to further his evil plans. No, there is no way that you can know whether he has pushed the button until the news of the explosion (or lack thereof) has reached you at the speed of light. Signals never travel faster than light speed.

Cause and effect propagate only within a so-called "light cone" proceeding forward in time and outward in space from where you are toward what you can affect. Similarly, they proceed forward in time and inward in space to you from things that can affect you. In between the future cone (which we might call the absolute future) and the past cone (which we might call the absolute past) there is a region about which we can have no immediate knowledge. Signals from that area have not had time to reach us yet. What we choose to call "right now, over there" lies somewhere within this region. We are free to choose a particular [hyper-]plane of simultaneity and define all events on that plane to be occurring "right now". Someone else is free to define his hyper-plane of simultaneity differently.
 
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As Dale said :There is a detached column one light year long with both ends moving toward Earth at speed c. Is there any chance the length of this column will be Lorentz contracted moving at such a high velocity?
 
Tareq Naushad said:
That means I am virtually touching a string whose one-end is on Earth and another end is on alpha.
The beam of light has very little in common with a string. I would not recommend that analogy at all.
 
Thecla said:
As Dale said :There is a detached column one light year long with both ends moving toward Earth at speed c. Is there any chance the length of this column will be Lorentz contracted moving at such a high velocity?
The 1 light year length is the length in the Earth's reference frame (with Alpha considered at rest relative to the Earth). In other frames the length will be different, but you will need to use the Lorentz transform instead of the length contraction formulas, since the length contraction formula does not apply here.
 

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