Where do Babies Come From? A Scientific Explanation for Curious Kids

[lisab]

This creeps me out!

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/south_king/aub/community/83045037.html"

OK, am I just twisting an innocent, sweet family function into a Freudian psychosexual drama?

I can't help but think I wouldn't have enjoyed slow dancing with my dad...well, maybe as a preschooler, but not as a pre-teen. But then again, we didn't have a touchy-feely, lovey-dubby family. Do they have mother-son date nights anywhere?

Is it just me, or does this give anyone else the heebee-jeebees?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It seems a bit odd, of course I did not have a very close touchy feely family either. I found it odd watching some of the fathers on that dancing contest show dancing with their daughters.

Its does seem that lots of women are "daddy's girls" though. So maybe its not really that weird.

 

[Char. Limit]

Not really. If you actually expect inappropriate conduct between the father and the daughter, than your mental health should be evaluated. If you don't, why worry?

As a side note, it does promote familial interaction, which I'm all for. We need more familials interacting.

 

[Pythagorean]

I concur with Char, I hope my daughter is still affectionate with me at that age. Of course, I wouldn't have been caught dead dancing with my mother when I was there.

 

[hypatia]

I went on many Daddy and Daughter dates and dances. Some of the most wonderful memories of my life. I was always very proud of my Father.

I see nothing wrong with a parent and child spending time together in social settings.

 

[Borg]

I don't see the harm unless he tries to take home someone else's date.

 

[Tobias Funke]

No, lisab, you're right-this is definitely weird. You can't really tell until you see the picture either, but that's the clincher. Weird.

And they most likely do have a mother-son event like this. At least they do on Arrested Development, and yeah they make fun of it on the show too.

 

[Borek]

I have mixed feelings as well, but I wonder if it is not just because we are bombarded from all sides with horror pedophilic stories (including those happening inside families).

There is nothing wrong with Dad hugging his daughter, after all that's one of the reasons we have kids - to hug them There is some line that should be not crossed, but I don't think it is being crossed here.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I'm usually the first to realize something is creepy, but this just isn't triggering my creepy detector. My family definitely isn't like that. My dad and sister were arch-enemies, so I definitely can't relate. But if I ever have a daughter, I'd hope we could have a good relationship where we can dance together. You know, the kind of relationship where we actually like each other. That's somewhat foreign to me right now.

 

[Pinu7]

This seems fine and cute.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't understand what the problem is with this? It's just a way for parents to spend time with their kids. At that young age, I loved to dance with my dad or grandpa. That's how I learned to dance (could've used a few more lessons though). My dad and I got along great; it's my mom who embarrassed me and I wouldn't want to be seen with in public.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have had several female friends who were molested by their fathers at that age. Hearing stories from friends about their fathers having them dress up pretty to take them out on father daughter dates where they would be forced to perform fellatio and other such things gives you a bit of a different view on these things.

That's not to say that all or even a particularly significant number of fathers that do these sorts of dates are molesting their daughters, but it still colours my perspective.

 

[lisab]

I have had several female friends who were molested by their fathers at that age. Hearing stories from friends about their fathers having them dress up pretty to take them out on father daughter dates where they would be forced to perform fellatio and other such things gives you a bit of a different view on these things.

That's not to say that all or even a particularly significant number of fathers that do these sorts of dates are molesting their daughters, but it still colours my perspective.

I've known women with similar experiences and that definitely affects my perspective as well.

Plus, when I was a daughter I never went through the "I want to marry daddy" phase, which some girls do (perfectly normal girls, I realize).

Of course I see nothing wrong with parents spending time with their children - I'm a mom and a daughter, after all. I just don't call the time spent together "dates."

 

[Klockan3]

I have had several female friends who were molested by their fathers at that age.

That sounds like a lot, are you sure all of them are speaking the truth? I know that there is a breed of females who can say things like that just to get people to feel pity. My mother and my ex stepmother are like that. Or, I should really say humans, but I have no experience of males saying that they were sexually harassed. Too much shame to even be joked about there.

 

[junglebeast]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a father taking his daughter out for dinner. However, calling it a "date" and them a "couple" (as in this article) is disturbing as these words have a purely intimate meaning.

 

[rootX]

Some parents shower with their children also?

Creepy for me.

 

[Klockan3]

Some parents shower with their children also?

Creepy for me.

Some even share bed with their kids at times

 

[Moonbear]

Of course I see nothing wrong with parents spending time with their children - I'm a mom and a daughter, after all. I just don't call the time spent together "dates."

Oh, you're reacting to the word "date?" I glossed over that. I guess I use the term date in a broader sense, and assumed that's the point with this sort of event too. A "date" can just mean a scheduled appointment or meeting. I don't use the word only to mean meeting a prospective romantic partner, but even with female friends when we schedule a night out, "Okay, then we've got a date, see you there!"

I can understand someone who was a victim of child molestation having unusual and negative reaction to a normal parent-child social situation, but just knowing someone who was molested shouldn't distort one's perspective of normal social situations that much. It doesn't seem quite normal to see this as anything other than a way for dads to do something with daughters, especially if their daughters are more of the "girly girl" type who would rather go dress up for dinner and dancing than go fishing or playing ball or some such, or if the dads are more of the sort of guy who isn't really all that into things like sports himself, and enjoys a good meal and ballroom dancing type activities.

 

[Proton Soup]

ah, i think it's mostly just that wanting to be treated like a princess thing that many girls have. maybe if you have a tomgirl, you should just take her fishing or hunting or something.

 

[Evo]

I find the "date night' thing very creepy. Father/daughter night would have been more than sufficient.

 

[Chi Meson]

As a father with an almost-nine-year-old daughter, count me among the "creeped out."

I do lots of one-on-one things with Nell. Lots of games, walks, and equestrian events mostly. If this date night is the way for some to connect, then fine I won't judge them.

But I will never, ever sign up.

 

[Newai]

That sounds like a lot, are you sure all of them are speaking the truth? I know that there is a breed of females who can say things like that just to get people to feel pity. My mother and my ex stepmother are like that. Or, I should really say humans, but I have no experience of males saying that they were sexually harassed. Too much shame to even be joked about there.

In the absence of motive and agenda beyond just telling the stories, I would take the report seriously instead of imputing one's own experiences with liars on others. If the report went further, into direct accusation, then I would hold reservation for sake of my ignorance.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Huh, "creepy" was never a word that came to mind in this context. While I understand the connection to abuse cases, esp for anyone privy to or a victim of abuse, the dad date idea has always struck me as a wholesome way for dads to connect with their daughters as young women - no longer as little girls. I can see where this is a good thing. Boys look for acceptance as young men, and not boys. As for acceptance by dad, a boy might gain a sense of manhood through time spent together inr competitive, recreational, or even domestic and work activies. For many boys, unfortunately, back when I was a kid, it was a pretty big moment when dad let them sneak their first drink of alcohol. As for mothers, they are usually the first to oooh and ahhhh over their handsome sons. But I must admit that as a teenager, I wouldn't have been caught dead on a "date" with my mother. Up to age twelve or so that would have been fine. And until then we did have our occcasional special night out; just us. But by the teen years that was over.

 

[Char. Limit]

I'm still in my teen years (yay!) and I can say that the last comment is right: I would never be caught dead taking my mother to a date night.

I'm not female, so it might be a different story for fathers and daughters.

If a father is sexually molesting his daughter, I doubt he'd take her out in public on a "date night". He would have to be stupid as well as sick to do that.

How many fathers do you seriously think abuse their daughters, anyway?

Away from the abuse, my high-school is having a mother-son tea thing for seniors (I'm one of them.) I'm going, as my mom wants to, but I wouldn't go if it was labeled a "mother-son date night".

 

[Math Is Hard]

Mom and son date night:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/57d7bb01ad/olive-garden-incest-commercial

 

[ideasrule]

"Date" does seem like a strange choice of words for an otherwise innocuous activity. I really wonder why they didn't choose "dance night". Wording fail?

 

[DaveC426913]

No, lisab, you're right-this is definitely weird. You can't really tell until you see the picture either, but that's the clincher. Weird.

No, what's really creepy is the ad on that Daddy-Daughter site.

Pedosphere?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm lost here. Why is the word "date" a big deal.

When I think back to what I did on dates, I don't see...

nevermind.

 

[zomgwtf]

I'm not really sure why it matters... why assume that all fathers want to take their daughters out for a nice night intend to molest them afterwards or ever... My sister is definitely a daddys girl, they don't go out on 'date nights' but I can really see no problem if they HAD. (maybe jealousy from me and my brother when we were younger...)

What's wrong with calling it a 'date' as well? If I go out with friends we could call it a date, is that creepy? Me going out on date nights with a friend? To me a date is just a a situation where you spend the 'date time' together with a person which is planned and meant to increase the bond between them.

 

[Phrak]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a father taking his daughter out for dinner. However, calling it a "date" and them a "couple" (as in this article) is disturbing as these words have a purely intimate meaning.

Yeah, well, the intent of the journalist was to invoke disturbing ideas to see what would bounce back. More bounce, more journalistic action. First we are presented with the daughter looking lovingly into her father's eyes. (Kudos to the camera man.) Then we get the sexually provocative key words.

If you think this is a matter of concern, you've been had. Not you in particular, junglebeast. Just, anyone. No offense. It is the imperative of journalists to make news when none is had.

 

[Zantra]

Father of a teenaged daughter here, and with all due respect to opinions here, I think this is blown out of proportion. While "date" might be poor phrasing, unless it's being hosted by MAMBLA, I seriously doubt there was anything to be inferred from a daddy/daughter function.

To those who've had some exposure to molestations, I can understand but you're seeing something very wrong where there is nothing. It's similar to someone who recovers from alcoholism, but then sees every drink taken as a path to ruin.

I would like to think that if my daughter thought I was "cool enough" to want to hang out with for a night that I wouldn't get weird stares for dancing with my daughter. There can be that close bond, after all, without it being sexual or in any way inappropriate. Those of you who find that odd, may have had a family dynamic where the father and daughter weren't that close. That doesn't mean everything has to have sexual overtures. and it doesn't mean daddy's a pedophile the vast majority of cases.

 

[Pythagorean]

Hypotheses:

1. People who's parent(s) weren't affectionate with them don't see affection until their first love (or sex partner) so they associate affection with sexuality from then on.

2. The words "date" and "couple" mean different things in different regions. I wonder if it's west coast vs. east coast or what? I would be considered west coast and this doesn't bother me. The article was written out of WA.

3. The particular father-daughter relationships of participants of this thread may be strained. For instance, if a mean, teenage daughter always acts disgusted and embarrassed by her father, her father might react in the way his daughter generally does, by being disgusted and embarrassed at the thought of a date night (as a defense mechanism).

Yes, I'm taking abnormal psych right now, I apologize in advance.

 

[Char. Limit]

It might be #2. I'm also from WA, and this doesn't creep me out a bit. (I'm even from the conservative (read: eastern) part of Washington)

 

[ideasrule]

I would like to think that if my daughter thought I was "cool enough" to want to hang out with for a night that I wouldn't get weird stares for dancing with my daughter.

That's a big "if". Have you asked your daughter whether she would ever go to the "date night" discussed in this thread? I don't know anything about your family or where you live, but I feel 99% certain the answer will be "no".

 

[Chi Meson]

No, lisab, you're right-this is definitely weird. You can't really tell until you see the picture either, but that's the clincher. Weird.

And they most likely do have a mother-son event like this. At least they do on Arrested Development, and yeah they make fun of it on the show too.

"Motherboy"!

Not associated with the band also called "Motherboy," who rocked "pretty hard" in the 80s.

We are legally obligated to make this distinction.

 

[zomgwtf]

Hypotheses:

1. People who's parent(s) weren't affectionate with them don't see affection until their first love (or sex partner) so they associate affection with sexuality from then on.

2. The words "date" and "couple" mean different things in different regions. I wonder if it's west coast vs. east coast or what? I would be considered west coast and this doesn't bother me. The article was written out of WA.

3. The particular father-daughter relationships of participants of this thread may be strained. For instance, if a mean, teenage daughter always acts disgusted and embarrassed by her father, her father might react in the way his daughter generally does, by being disgusted and embarrassed at the thought of a date night (as a defense mechanism).

Yes, I'm taking abnormal psych right now, I apologize in advance.

Lol, I was thinking along the same lines when I first posted. I just didn't want to start making assumptions about peoples personal lives . The word 'couple' in my opinion is pushing the boundary but calling it a 'date night' I see no harm done. I would assume that a lot of the negativity towards this has to do mostly with your hypotheses 1 and 3. Maybe add number 4.

4. Some people while younger longed for 'good' familial bonding yet their parents never gave it this way. So now, not because they associate it with 'sex', but because the associate it with 'what they never had' they are disgusted by the idea.

It's the same thing for how some people are spoiled. Many people automatically hate people who get everything they want before they even know them as people. I think it has to do more with the fact that the person hating as a child didn't get everything they wanted.

 

[Chi Meson]

I think this is why I hate psychology, actually. I secretly wanted to be psychoanalyzed when I was a pre-teen, and now I am disgusted by people trying to read more into a situation than is actually there.

 

[Proton Soup]

the more i think about this, the more i think it "depends". for those that are overly prudish and don't allow their 16-year-old daughters to date or have boyfriends, i think this tips a bit over into generally creepy and poorly conceived. for preteen girls, it seems more like an innocent fun thing. but in a framework of discipline and control, it gets weird.

 

[Klockan3]

I think this is why I hate psychology, actually. I secretly wanted to be psychoanalyzed when I was a pre-teen, and now I am disgusted by people trying to read more into a situation than is actually there.

Actually psychologists aren't taught anything that have to do with Freud except the history of him as a founding father of psychology as a science. It stopped like 50 years ago, modern theories are much more sane and accurate.

 

[ideasrule]

but in a framework of discipline and control, it gets weird.

Well said. If your dad only talks to you to criticize or to offer "adult guidance", and never to have fun or play, of course you'd think a daddy-daughter date night is weird. If your parents don't let you date until after high school--and this is the case for many, if not most, Chinese parents--of course any kind of affectionate relationship would seem unnatural.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

... why assume that all fathers want to take their daughters out for a nice night intend to molest them afterwards or ever...

It is not a matter of believing all such father daughter relationships involve molestation. The mental connection is formed by personally knowing people who have suffered. It becomes a reminder and conjures up the concern I felt for those I care about. I do not think less of these fathers or wonder if they are molesting their daughters and I am happy for them that they have such a relationship. I make no assumptions only it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable to remember and so my feeling (as opposed to rational perspective) about such things is that they are kind of "weird"/"creepy". And concern about such things is not really something one would generally deprogram themselves of but merely learn to not over play the significance.

How many fathers do you seriously think abuse their daughters, anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#Incest
Wiki gives an approximate 15% of women are sexually abused as minors and the most often reported tend to be abuse from the father or stepfather. Its not really common but it isn't exactly rare.

 

[Char. Limit]

You don't know that all of those women are telling the truth. Women are people, and people lie.

That said, 15% seems like a reasonable number, especially considering that familial abuse would seem, to me, to be the hardest to catch. Also, in my mind (I've never been one) a stepfather would be more likely to sexually abuse his daughter than a blood father. I don't mean to offend, I just see a relationship by blood in the latter case.

 

[zomgwtf]

You don't know that all of those women are telling the truth. Women are people, and people lie.

That said, 15% seems like a reasonable number, especially considering that familial abuse would seem, to me, to be the hardest to catch. Also, in my mind (I've never been one) a stepfather would be more likely to sexually abuse his daughter than a blood father. I don't mean to offend, I just see a relationship by blood in the latter case.

I think that the number would be more than likely accurate, since although people lie, people don't always come forward. I think that if anything more people do not come forward about these events, or possibly even supress or 'forget' them, which would make the percentage even higher.

@stat I didn't mean to imply that you thought 'less' of those fathers I just think that it is not logically sound to say 'well I know such and such got molested after her father brought her out on dates so this is creepy.' It is true that your feelings of something are not always logical. However I think when applying the word 'creepy' to a father who would think he's doing a nice thing to build a relationship with his daughter one should put more logically consistent thought into it. That's a pretty hurtful thing to say about what some people would consider to be a 'good time'

@proton, I agree entirely that if the father is only using this time to enforce a sort-of 'discplinary' action or as a way to hinder them from dating or being with other men that it is kind of weird... even unnecessary. I would like to assume however that most men who are fathers do this with their daughters simply for the enjoyment of having a close relationship with their father which from experience in my family is something that a lot of men would like to have. (not in a weird sexual way... in a 'fathers pride' sort of way.)

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

However I think when applying the word 'creepy' to a father who would think he's doing a nice thing to build a relationship with his daughter one should put more logically consistent thought into it. That's a pretty hurtful thing to say about what some people would consider to be a 'good time'

I am not intending to label such fathers 'creepy' either. Its the situation as opposed to the people. Similarly I am claustrophobic and not discomfited by the actual people near me so much as my perceived confinement by their proximity.

 

[Evo]

The event is not creepy, it's the name that's creepy.

 

[GeorginaS]

I'm absolutely and firmly in the squick camp, here. My father and uncles taught me how to partner dance too while I was small enough to stand on their feet and hold onto their hands while we moved around the dance area. And that was at weddings and family gatherings. It was fun.

But this event? Even the wording is designed in such a way to induce major spine shivers.

This event is the perfect opportunity for fathers, grandfathers, uncles, or big brothers to take their special little girl out for a night she will never forget.

Emphasis mine.

Pardon?

And then this:

The night will begin with a momentous photograph of the couple. Dancing, dinner and dessert is included in the $45 per couple registration fee

Emphasis mine.

I realize that, yes, two people constitute a "couple" of people. Within this context, and the context of "dating", which is generally defined as adult or almost-adult pairings enjoying social outings together for the purposes of developing or forming an intimate relationship.

I recognise that they were extending the "Daddy" concept to any older male in the young girl's life, because not all kids have daddies present, so they wouldn't want to exclude anyone. But the whole "couple" "date" wording (and associated photograph) suggests a whole bunch of stuff that's wildly inappropriate. At the very least, they could have thought their presentation through a bit better.

Didn't we have a thread similar to this not too long ago, but it entailed men "dating" their teenaged daughters? Wasn't there some sort of pretext or concept behind it about young women learning from their fathers what proper treatment on a date is supposed to entail?

For whoever in this thread wants to keep insisting that women/girls lie about being sexually assaulted (although why they'd do that, I don't know -- my experience and reading tells me that large numbers of girls and women don't ever tell anyone out of shame, if anything, it continues to be under-reported) they might be interested to hold in their minds that the majority of women under the age of 18 who are sexually assaulted have it happen at the hands of someone known to them. A family member, a friend of the family, a neighbour. The majority of the time, it's not a stranger.

I don't see anything at all wrong with dads and daughters spending exclusive time together doing things they enjoy. I have fond memories of my father spending time with me teaching me stuff and playing with my sister and me. It wasn't formalised or contrived. He just demonstrated that he was interested and wanted to be involved. That meant the world to me.

This event, though? Girls from the ages of 4 to 10 on a "date night"? Nope. That's placing them squarely in an adult oriented context. Four-year-olds don't "date". And they don't "date" their daddies.

 

[GeorginaS]

I'm still in my teen years (yay!) and I can say that the last comment is right: I would never be caught dead taking my mother to a date night.

I'm not female, so it might be a different story for fathers and daughters.

If a father is sexually molesting his daughter, I doubt he'd take her out in public on a "date night". He would have to be stupid as well as sick to do that.

How many fathers do you seriously think abuse their daughters, anyway?

Away from the abuse, my high-school is having a mother-son tea thing for seniors (I'm one of them.) I'm going, as my mom wants to, but I wouldn't go if it was labeled a "mother-son date night".

Let me give you some facts, Char.Limit, as it seems you're flying by the seat of your pants and what "seems to make sense" to you rather than what is.

Stuff:

The statistics are shocking

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18. (96)

1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18. (96)

1 in 5 children are solicited sexually while on the internet. (30, 87)

Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under. (76)

An estimated 39 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse exist in America today. (1)

Even within the walls of their own homes, children are at risk for sexual abuse
30-40% of victims are abused by a family member. (2, 44, 76)

Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.

Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know. (1, 44)

Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.


http://www.darkness2light.org/KnowAbout/statistics_2.asp"

Google for more information. It doesn't matter if you check with sexual abuse hotlines or government stats. They'll tell you pretty much the same thing. Children are most vulnerable in their own homes with with people associated with their family. Truly scary but true.

 

[edpell]

A parent and a child doing an activity together sounds great. Calling it a date and calling the two a couple sounds sexual to me. How about instead I and my daughter went to Ruby Tuesday's for dinner last night. Or I am my son went to see Avatar in Kingston last night.

 

[edpell]

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18. (96)

I am not disagreeing in any way with the statistic. I would like to know what level of abuse counts as "sexual abuse" for the purposes of this statistic.

 

[edpell]

On the language usage question. I am east coast and am surprised by those (of both genders) who use the word girl to refer to all woman regardless of age. At 51 I do not view myself as a boy.