Where is potential energy in relativistic formula of energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of potential energy in the context of relativistic energy formulas, particularly how kinetic and potential energy can be expressed together when considering interactions between particles. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to relativistic physics and gravitational effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how potential energy fits into the relativistic energy formula, specifically in relation to momentum.
  • Another participant suggests that the type of force (e.g., gravitational or electromagnetic) influences how potential energy is treated in relativistic contexts.
  • For gravitational interactions, potential and kinetic energy are generalized using a specific mathematical expression involving proper time.
  • In the case of electromagnetic interactions, potential is represented as a 4-vector, with a Hamiltonian formulation provided that includes both scalar and vector potentials.
  • A later reply discusses the Newtonian limit of gravitational potential energy and how it relates to relativistic expressions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how potential energy is incorporated into relativistic energy equations, indicating that multiple competing models and interpretations exist without a consensus on a singular approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on the type of force involved and the mathematical framework used, suggesting that assumptions about the nature of potential energy may vary significantly across different contexts.

ndung200790
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Please teach me this:
The relativistic energy E=m.square(c)/squareroot(1-square(v)/square(c)) is determined by momentum p(because of ''square''(4-p)=square(m)).Then what is the role of potential in relativistic energy?When we consider the interaction between particles,how can we express the kinetic energy plus potential energy in the same formula?
Thank you very much in advance.
 
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ndung200790 said:
Please teach me this:
The relativistic energy E=m.square(c)/squareroot(1-square(v)/square(c)) is determined by momentum p(because of ''square''(4-p)=square(m)).Then what is the role of potential in relativistic energy?When we consider the interaction between particles,how can we express the kinetic energy plus potential energy in the same formula?
Thank you very much in advance.

The question has to be more specific: what kind of force? Because if it is gravity, you need to do some GR and it's not exactly a potential anymore. If it's EM, the potential is a 4-vector: [itex](\phi, \mathbf{A})[/itex], where [itex]\phi[/itex] is the scalar potential and [itex]\mathbf{A}[/itex] the vector potential. The Hamiltonian in this case is:
[tex]H = \sqrt{m^2 c^4 + \left(\mathbf{p} - e\mathbf{A}\right)^2 c^2} + e\phi[/tex]
 
If it's gravity, then both potential and kinetic energy are generalised as (letting c=1):
[itex]-m\frac{d\tau}{dt}[/itex]​
where
[itex]d\tau^2=g_{\mu\nu}dx^{\mu}dx^{\nu}[/itex]​
We can see this clearly when we assume spherical symmetry and consider the Newtonian limit:
[itex]-m\frac{d\tau}{dt}=-m\sqrt{\frac{g_{tt}dt^2+g_{mm}(dx^m)^2}{dt^2}}[/itex]​
[itex]=-m\sqrt{g_{tt}-\dot{x}^2}[/itex]​
[itex]=-m\sqrt{1-\frac{2GM}{r}-\dot{x}^2}[/itex]​
[itex]\approx-m+\frac{GMm}{r}+\frac{1}{2}m\dot{x}^2[/itex]​
And given that the action in a gravity well is
[itex]-m\int{d\tau}=0[/itex]​
then we recover the non-relativistic
[itex]E=\Delta{U}+KE[/itex]​
 
Last edited:

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