Where's my mistake? (Pendulum with gravity)

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the analysis of a pendulum's motion under gravitational forces, where the user presents equations for position, velocity, and acceleration. The user identifies a mistake in their calculations regarding the centripetal force, initially using tension (T) incorrectly. The correct expression for centripetal acceleration should include both tension and gravitational components, leading to the realization that the denominator in their equations was not squared, which caused inconsistencies. The community emphasizes the importance of checking units and learning from errors.

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  • Familiarity with calculus, particularly derivatives and trigonometric functions.
  • Knowledge of centripetal force and gravitational force interactions.
  • Ability to manipulate and simplify algebraic expressions accurately.
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  • Review the principles of pendulum motion and derive the equations of motion.
  • Study centripetal acceleration and its relationship with tension and gravitational forces.
  • Learn about dimensional analysis to verify the correctness of physical equations.
  • Practice algebraic manipulation techniques to avoid common mistakes in calculations.
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Students and professionals in physics, particularly those studying mechanics, as well as educators looking to reinforce the importance of error-checking in mathematical derivations.

Efeguleroglu
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I have a pendulum and an object with radius "R" and mass "m". There are forces: constant gravitational acceleration and tension on the rope. I can write:
$$x=R sin(\theta) \ \ y=R cos(\theta)$$
$$\dot{x}=R\dot{\theta}cos(\theta) \ \ \dot{y}=-R\dot{\theta}sin(\theta)$$
$$\ddot{x}=R\ddot{\theta}cos(\theta)-R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}sin(\theta)\ \ \ (1)$$
$$\ddot{y}=-R\ddot{\theta}sin(\theta)-R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}cos(\theta)\ \ \ (2)$$
$$a=\frac{T}{m}=\frac{{\dot{x}}^{2}+{\dot{y}}^{2}}{R}={\dot{\theta}}^{2}R\ \ \ (3)$$
$$R\ddot{\theta}cos(\theta)-R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}sin(\theta)=\frac{T}{m}sin(\theta)={\dot{\theta}}^{2}Rsin(\theta)$$
Combine (1) and (3).
$$\ddot{\theta}cos(\theta)-{\dot{\theta}}^{2}sin(\theta)={\dot{\theta}}^{2}sin(\theta)$$
$$tan(\theta)=\frac{\ddot{\theta}}{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}\ \ \ (4)$$
Combine (2) and (3).
$$-R\ddot{\theta}sin(\theta)-R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}cos(\theta)=\frac{T}{m}cos(\theta)-g=R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}cos(\theta)-g$$
Find tan(θ) and equate to (4).
$$tan(\theta)=-\frac{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}{\ddot{\theta}}+\frac{g}{cos(\theta)R\ddot{\theta}}=\frac{\ddot{\theta}}{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}\ \ \ (5)$$
$$cos(\theta)=\frac{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}g}{R({\ddot{\theta}}^{2}+4{\dot{\theta}}^{4})}\ \ \ and\ \ \ y=\frac{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}g}{({\ddot{\theta}}^{2}+4{\dot{\theta}}^{4})}\ \ \ (6)$$
From (4).
$$cot(\theta)=\frac{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}{\ddot{\theta}}\ \ \ (7)$$
Combine (2) and (3).
$$-R\ddot{\theta}sin(\theta)-R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}cos(\theta)=\frac{T}{m}cos(\theta)-g=R{\dot{\theta}}^{2}cos(\theta)-g$$
Find cot(θ) and equate to (7).
$$cot(\theta)=\frac{g}{2sin(\theta){\dot{\theta}}^{2}{R}}-\frac{\ddot{\theta}}{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}=\frac{2{\dot{\theta}}^{2}}{\ddot{\theta}}\ \ \ (8)$$
$$sin(\theta)=\frac{\ddot{\theta}g}{(4{\dot{\theta}}^{4}+{\ddot{\theta}}^{2})R}\ \ \ and \ \ \ x=\frac{\ddot{\theta}g}{(4{\dot{\theta}}^{4}+{\ddot{\theta}}^{2})}\ \ \ (9)$$
So from (6) and (9).
$$x^{2}+y^{2}=g^{2}$$
But that doesn't make sense. There must be a mistake. How does
$$g=R$$
have to be hold?
 
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Check the units of each expression you have written and you will find your error where they do not match. Do this always. I am terrible at Algebra.
 
That's too embarassing. I forgot to square the denominator. Forgive me for wasting your time :(
 
Efeguleroglu said:
That's too embarassing. I forgot to square the denominator. Forgive me for wasting your time :(
Efeguleroglu said:
That's too embarassing. I forgot to square the denominator. Forgive me for wasting your time :(
Not a waste if you develop good habits! Glad I could help.
 
How will I delete this thread?
 
Efeguleroglu said:
How will I delete this thread?

it's left there ... some one else may learn from it :smile:
 
I wrote
$$a_c=\frac{T}{m}$$
But it must be equal to
$$a_c=\frac{T+mgcos(\theta)}{m}$$
Actually I mistakenly used T as the centripetal force. It can easily be replaced. I just wanted to fix that.
 
Efeguleroglu said:
That's too embarassing. I forgot to square the denominator. Forgive me for wasting your time :(
Hi, @Efeguleroglu, I haven't checked the math, but I just want to say that "to err is human." I've done plenty of mistakes during the years, and I still do, though I hope the frequency has been reduced :smile:. And errors and failures are excellent learning opportunities!
 
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