Schools Which Grad School - Math PhD: Rensselaer vs FSU

[holomorphic]

This is essentially a poll question.

Here's the deal. I love math, physics, computers... essentially, if it's quantitative and involves puzzling over problems, I love it.

However, I'm pretty concerned about getting a well-paying job--or even a mediocre job that involves using what I know. (I'm referring to jobs OUTSIDE academia at the moment.)

At this point I have offers with support from the Rensselaer Polytechnic math PhD program, and from the Florida State University financial math PhD program.

Where do you think I would be most stimulated? What kind of opportunities do you think each program would present? Which degree would be most employable when I'm done?

Really appreciate any opinions, and any advice on how to choose between these two programs.

 

[zpconn]

A math PhD program is probably a lot different from a *financial* math PhD program. So I don't think anybody here can say which will stimulate you more.

My understanding is that math PhDs tend to do pretty well in academia as far as getting some decent job goes. Getting a professorship is another matter, something you probably shouldn't count on.

I also think that if you're willing to look at Wall Street jobs, for instance, then experience in financial math could make you pretty employable in that area as well.

In short, I'm not sure we can help you decide too much without knowing more about what *you* want.

 

[holomorphic]

My understanding is that math PhDs tend to do pretty well in academia as far as getting some decent job goes. Getting a professorship is another matter, something you probably shouldn't count on.

I tried to specify above that I'm not asking about jobs in academia. I'm concerned that departments are not expanding--and probably in most places, they shouldn't.

In short, I'm not sure we can help you decide too much without knowing more about what *you* want.

Actually, I'm trying to find out what other people would find attractive or not attractive about such programs, and in what light they see them. If you had to choose, which one and why? (I realize you might just think, "N/A, since neither of these are my interests," but which one would be closest?)

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

Holo, I hope you understand that you really didn't help us help you to choose which programme is better for you.

Cause really most people who surf PF like math, physics, engineering and cs of somesort, your'e not special.

 

[holomorphic]

Cause really most people who surf PF like math, physics, engineering and cs of somesort, your'e not special.

... I don't know how to address this other than to say that I never claimed to be the only person on PF who liked math, engineering, cs, etc.

Holo, I hope you understand that you really didn't help us help you to choose which programme is better for you.

... again, I am essentially asking how YOU would choose. If you're not interested in giving your opinion, you really don't have to reply. You could let the thread die. It would be preferable to getting a reply saying "I don't know how to answer." That's fine--if you don't have an opinion, then saying "you're not helping me have an opinion" is not required.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

Well if you had said what particular in math interest you the most, I would have a better answer.

Anyway, a programme in financial math I guess would be more to stochastic analysis and statistics, as in more applied than a regular math (pure) phd.

 

[twofish-quant]

At this point I have offers with support from the Rensselaer Polytechnic math PhD program, and from the Florida State University financial math PhD program.

Where do you think I would be most stimulated? What kind of opportunities do you think each program would present? Which degree would be most employable when I'm done?

Pretty much impossible to tell based on the information provided. You really should see if the department can put you in touch with alumni so you can see what they are up to.

Also the only good Ph.D. is a completed one, so one thing that you might want to do is to go to each campus and figure out which one you think you'll have an easier time finishing Ph.D. programs.

As far as actual content, one curious thing is that investment banks don't hold a Ph.D. in financial math as necessarily better than a Ph.D. in any other applied math. The reason is that Ph.D. dissertations are very narrow so if you did you Ph.D. in credit default swaps, that's doesn't immediately apply to commodity derivatives. On the other hand. a Ph.D. program in financial math should have more contacts in the industry, which will help with job search.

Really appreciate any opinions, and any advice on how to choose between these two programs.

One quick check is

1) what research are they doing
2) do they have funding for bringing outside people in

 

[holomorphic]

As far as actual content, one curious thing is that investment banks don't hold a Ph.D. in financial math as necessarily better than a Ph.D. in any other applied math.

At the level of an MS, wouldn't they rather see someone with a degree in financial math than someone with a degree in applied? I'm sure you know better than I do--this is just my guess. It seems like any old applied math student could avoid all the relevant topics.

On the other hand. a Ph.D. program in financial math should have more contacts in the industry, which will help with job search.

RPI seems to boast a bit about its industry contacts--but whether this applies as much to the math department as to its business school and engineering programs...

I've seen a couple of posts on other forums related to the FSU program speaking disparagingly of it because it isn't proximal to any center of activity. But a look at LinkedIn and the program page suggest that alums have found decent jobs, and that the program DOES have connections to industry. I understand programs have to put on their best face, though.

2) do they have funding for bringing outside people in

How do you mean "outside people"?

 

[twofish-quant]

At the level of an MS, wouldn't they rather see someone with a degree in financial math than someone with a degree in applied? I'm sure you know better than I do--this is just my guess. It seems like any old applied math student could avoid all the relevant topics.

It's not so much of what they would prefer to see, but getting the resume to the right person. For example in my group, someone with a masters in computer science + experience would be rated more highly than someone with a masters in financial math, but is different from another group (i.e. the people that work across the aisle from me).

If you have a good masters program, then they have someone in career services that makes sure that I get CS-masters and the person that sits across the aisle gets the masters in financial maths. If you have a bad career services group, then they'll send resumes to the wrong people.

This is for masters. Ph.D. hiring is a totally different animal.

RPI seems to boast a bit about its industry contacts--but whether this applies as much to the math department as to its business school and engineering programs...

This is why talking to alumni is important. University of Texas McCombs Business school has some excellent career services and contacts in the financial industry. Unfortunately, people in the School of Natural Sciences (which includes graduates of the mathematical finance department) are not allowed to use any of that.

I've seen a couple of posts on other forums related to the FSU program speaking disparagingly of it because it isn't proximal to any center of activity.

It hurts a lot not to be in New York City, but having a department that tries hard to place students can get around that problem. For what it's worth, I've run into professors from FSU financial math at conferences, been pretty impressed by what they are doing.

I understand programs have to put on their best face, though.

That's why talking to real live alumni is important. A professor or admissions counselor has a very strong financial interest to see that you enroll in a program. An alumni doesn't. Sure if you ask an admissions officer for a reference to an alumni, they'll find people that will say good things, but the fact that they will try to do that means something.

Also alumni are important, because everything is about networking, and being able to talk to alumni gives you a signal about how strong those networks are. What networks get you is information. Someone that goes to the same school won't really be able to change the process, but they can tell you who should get resumes and who shouldn't get them.

How do you mean "outside people"?

Visiting researchers. If it's a good program then they should have lots of talks from people outside of the department.