Which ψ do I use for the Expectation Value ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the expectation value of an energy eigenstate in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on which wave function (ψ) to use for this calculation. Participants explore the implications of different wave functions and the context in which they are applied.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents three different wave functions: A) ψ = √L/2 sin nπx/L, B) ψ = BsinBcosD, and C) ψ = ΣCn ψn = C, and asks which one is appropriate for calculating the expectation value of energy.
  • Another participant suggests that the choice of wave function depends on the specific energy eigenstate being considered and questions the physical context of the problem, such as whether it involves an electron in an atom or a free particle.
  • A third participant emphasizes that the wave function is contextual, indicating that the appropriate choice of ψ is tied to the physical situation.
  • One participant critiques the terminology used in the original post, clarifying that expectation values pertain to physical quantities rather than states, and explains the importance of measuring the same physical quantity in the same state for consistency in expectation values.
  • This participant also points out that the integral formula presented is only valid if ψ is indeed an energy eigenstate and requests further context regarding the derivation of the formula and the knowledge level of the original poster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of context in selecting the appropriate wave function for calculating expectation values. However, there is no consensus on which specific wave function should be used, as different perspectives on the physical situation and terminology are presented.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the definitions of expectation values and the conditions under which the integral formula is valid. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity on the physical context of the problem.

SpaceNerdz
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I have to calculate the Expectation Value of an Energy Eigenstate : < En >
The integral is ∫ ψ* En ψ dx

I have :
A ) ψ = √L/2 sin nπx/L , a single standing wave of the wave function
B ) ψ = BsinBcosD , the wave function of the particle
C ) ψ = ΣCn ψn = C , sum of all the standing waves

Which ψ do I use ? Why ? What's wrong with using the other two ?
 
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SpaceNerdz said:
Which ψ do I use ?

The short answer is, whichever one corresponds to the energy eigenstate you are trying to calculate the expectation value of. But first you need to explain where you are getting these three functions from. What is the physical situation you are asking about? An electron in an atom? A free particle? What?
 
In other words, wave function is contextual.
 
SpaceNerdz said:
I have to calculate the Expectation Value of an Energy Eigenstate : < En >
That's not the correct terminology. There is no expectation value "of a state" but only an expectation value of a physical quantity (like energy, position, momentum, spin).

If you calculate the expectation value of energy, you know what to expect in the lab if you repeat the same measurement many times and average over the outcomes. What do I mean with "the same" in this sentence? You need to measure the same physical quantity (energy in this case) and you need to make sure that the system is in the same state \psi for all measurements. So of course, the expectation value of a physical quantity depends on which state \psi your system is in.

The expectation value of energy is often denoted as \langle H \rangle_{\psi} where H stands for the energy operator. Your notation \langle E_n \rangle doesn't make sense, because it specifies only the state (which is E_n) but not the physical quantity of which you want to calculate the expectation value. You may say that it is obvious that you want to calculate the expectation value of energy but we could as well calculate the expectation value of position for your state E_n, which would read like this: \langle X \rangle_{E_n}.

SpaceNerdz said:
The integral is ∫ ψ* En ψ dx
This formula is only correct if ψ is an energy eigenstate. Where does the formula come from? Has it been derived? Please give context and state your knowledge level.
 
Last edited:

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