White Only Scholarship Sparks Outrage

[Monique]

Ok, there is a reasonable argument you are making (rather than shouting fire when you smell smoke).

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Monique
That has to do with governments collaborating. What I am talking about is the naturalized Dutch people living in the US.

Funny you should mention that...behold the power of GOOGLE!


The Netherland-America Foundation Inc. offers grants and education loans to Dutch students studying in America...how do you feel about that, is it wrong that I am not eligible for that because I am not Dutch?

 

[Monique]

You quoted me, but did you actually read what I said?? "That has to do with governments collaborating" it is to establish political ties between the US and NL, where Dutch people are allowed to go to the US and US people are allowed to go to NL.

Also, those people are not naturalized US citizens, which I also mentioned as a criterium.

 

[Zero]

Oh, you meant to say "naturalized American citizens of Dutch descent"...you're right, that's a whole different subject. Although, as I look at it...those don't seem to be government funded, they are sponsored by private organizations.

 

[Bystander]

Originally posted by Zero
(snip)
Not everyone is eligible for every scholarship,

Check.

so I feel that focusing on one specific type

Academic, athletic, children of the Moose Lodge? I'm not clear on what you mean about focus on "one type" here.

of scholarship while ignoring all the other types is racism-based.

This would be the kids in R.I. obsessing over the dearth (non-existent) of "white" scholarships?

 

[Zero]

*shrugs* There are tons of scholarshps the "white" kids can get...


Come on, this is the sort of behavior that only right-wing loser idiots try to pull...while at the same time talking out of the other side of their mouths to support their own brands of discrimination. Remember, private organizations have the right to discriminate however they like, isn't that a "conservative" principle? Then why are they horrified on the rare occasion that the "discrimination" doesn't go their way?

 

[Monique]

But how long are we going to have to view color of skin as a disability?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Monique
But how long are we going to have to view color of skin as a disability?

That's up to the racists, isn't it?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Monique
In that sense I wonder what the black heritage would be.. is slavery the only heritage that you can have?

Well, there's certainly the building of the pyramids, along with the fact that black people were the first people, used the first tools, etc. And then there's creating blues and jazz, from which all modern music stems.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Zero
That's up to the racists, isn't it?

That's a rather defeatist attitude...

You're just going to leave it up to racists to decide when blacks are no longer looked upon as inferior? Or perhaps I misunderstood you...

Monique makes a good point about how people should stop looking at skin color as a disability. Giving black people money for college based solely on the fact that they're black is bassically acknowledging that you think black people are all poorer than white people and need more help as a race. I'm sure that the statistics would show that a larger percent of black people are poor than white people, however there are plenty of white people, latinos, asians etc. who are just as poor as any black people. And I realize that there are plenty of latino/asian/whatever minority scholarship funds etc. But zero, don't you think it would be best if scholarships were given to people based on how much money they have rather than skin color?

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
That's a rather defeatist attitude...

You're just going to leave it up to racists to decide when blacks are no longer looked upon as inferior? Or perhaps I misunderstood you...

I was just going to say the same. I don't think there are any prejudices that keep you from going to a good school and getting you good grades.

Sometimes I wonder why we (us posters) aren't actually politicians and really changing the world rather than talking about it

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Monique
I was just going to say the same. I don't think there are any prejudices that keep you from going to a good school and getting you good grades.

Yes, there are, actually...in the way that schools are funded and school districts are drafted.

 

[Monique]

and that means?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Monique
and that means?

There are a lot of poor areas which are inhabited by a lot of minorities which get bad funding for their schools. Thus, these minority populated areas get bad educations as a whole and the people who live there have a worse shot at leading a productive life than people who live in mostly white suburbs. However, having bad teachers and being poor doesn't stop one from doing their homework, studying for tests, and educating themself to try to get out of the vicious cycle of poor education and poverty. Someone who is poor, goes to a bad school, but works diligently has many types of non race based scholarships available to them. However, if the person who does good work despite his poor school system is Puertorican, he'll certainly try to take advantage of Puertorican/Latino scholarship funds.

 

[Monique]

Oh ok.. in that sense.. I have seen the same in Detroit, where there was a really big shortage on teachers. But does poor mean black?? Shouldn't being poor be the qualifying characteristic as I mentioned earlier??

 

[Monique]

Hey! Today is anti-racism day

 

[NateTG]

First off, it's a *private* scholarship. Essentially it's somebody taking their own money and giving it to someone else. For all I care, they could make it exculsive to seven-foot tall men with green hair -- essentially, what you guys are complaining about is not that these people are giving out the scholarship this way, but that the people are announcing their intention to discriminate based on race in a particular fashion.

Really, what's so different about an 'white only' scholarship and a 'black only' scholarship that makes the 'black only' scholarship ok, but the white only scholarship a bad thing?

Regarding Zero's claims that U.S. 'white' is not a different culture than the various european 'white' cultures: There are many significant differences between the 'white' european socieities and 'white' in the US. In general, the customs that are prevalant in the US tend to be more puritanical, and more archaic versions of the customs that are prevalent in Europe such as using both knife and fork with the same hand, and strong nudity taboos.

It's also gotten to the point that in many West Coast universities, 'white' students are underrepresented, and 'asian' students are overrepresented so they have a harder time getting in. This situtation indicates that perhaps affirmative action should be applied to white students.

I'm all for creating social equity, but most of the rhetoric that I see is not about that, but about furthering someone's political agenda. People willinging assume that the representative disparity is because of social bias when there are other potential causes.

The goal of many of the people who are doing this type of thing is to point out that the racist policies of affirmative action are not held up to any real standards of performance -- there is no real indication of how the success or failure of affirmative action programs will be measured, when what milestones should be reached.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Monique
Oh ok.. in that sense.. I have seen the same in Detroit, where there was a really big shortage on teachers. But does poor mean black?? Shouldn't being poor be the qualifying characteristic as I mentioned earlier??

Being poor should be the deciding factor in scholarships, since there are plenty of white people in poor areas. It seems that zero's saying that black people/other minorities are specifically discriminated against in these areas...

 

[Monique]

Very eloquently said NateTG

 

[Bystander]

Originally posted by Zero
*Come on, this is the sort of behavior that only right-wing loser idiots try to pull...while at the same time talking out of the other side of their mouths to support their own brands of discrimination. Remember, private organizations have the right to discriminate however they like, isn't that a "conservative" principle?

--- and, R. Williams is a $20k tuition/a private school.

Then why are they horrified on the rare occasion that the "discrimination"

By the ACLU? Suggesting the campus admin shouldn't be blocking funding for a student organization?

doesn't go their way?

 

[Tatum]

I agree that affirmative action needs to be altered. Plenty of blacks were able to graduate from college and do well pre affirmative action. But why are there scholarships for blacks in the first place? Wouldn't the time between slavery and the civil rights movement be affirmative action for whites? Slavery/segregation has had tramatic psychological effects that still affects blacks today. I'm not saying that it warrants affirmative action but that it's still a valid issue that needs to be discussed. That time period still connects to issues that blacks are dealing with today (incarceration, poverty, self image, etc)

 

[Dagenais]

There are black and native American scholarships.

Not Asians. In fact, many Universities try to put a cease on Asians entering because too many surpass the requirements keeping other people from getting in.

 

[plus]

Anyone who makes decisions about other peoples futures and prevents people from entering education due to race is a racist. This applies to black only scolarships as well as anything else. There is no reason why black people should have lower admission standards to college than anyone else.

The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances. If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.

 

[Monique]

The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances.

No, that is not a fact.

If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.

This attitude is in fact racist. You are generalizing your opinion for a whole group based on skin color, that is just wrong. The only Asians you see are the ones that succeed and free themselves from poverty, while 'blacks' (whatever that means) are around either case.

 

[NateTG]

No, that is not a fact.

It's vauge and the phrasing is poor, but the statement is essentially factual in nature -- depending on what 'standardized tests' and 'black' mean it can be experimentally verified. My understanding is that people who self-identify as black do worse as a population than people who self-identify as white on the SAT's.

Although the second part of the post is indeed racist, ignorant, and insensitive, the notion that there are performance differences due to cultural differences is not unreasonable.

 

[member 5645]

It's vauge and the phrasing is poor, but the statement is essentially factual in nature -- depending on what 'standardized tests' and 'black' mean it can be experimentally verified. My understanding is that people who self-identify as black do worse as a population than people who self-identify as white on the SAT's.

.

Exactly, and that fact is what lends people to calling the SAT 'racist'

 

[Monique]

Sure, there are cultural difference.. but culture is something different from skin color. I am very sure that if I were to take a SAT or a GRE I would score below my ability. Just because I am not familiar with the testing format that is used in the US.

Plus in fact mentioned a condition to the tests:
The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances.

That would leave out cultural variation and only leave in skin color, thus the statement is not true.

 

[Janitor]

people to calling the SAT 'racist'--phatmonky

Is it fair to conclude that Asians must be in charge of writing the SAT tests, i.e. that the SATs are Asian-centric, and thus non-Asian students do relatively poorly?

 

[Monique]

Maybe tests like the SAT and the GRE should be done away with completely. I think the GRE is stupid anyway.. I was good in the logic section, but they threw it out and replaced in with essay writing, and there is already a section english vocabulary, and I don't even want to get into English writing major.. anyway.

 

[Dagenais]

Anyone who makes decisions about other peoples futures and prevents people from entering education due to race is a racist. This applies to black only scolarships as well as anything else. There is no reason why black people should have lower admission standards to college than anyone else.

Go tell that to some of them. They'll sue Universities and accuse them of "racism" since not even blacks or no blacks attend their University, depite the fact that they don't meet standards. So, instead of letting deserving students in, they have to let a few of them in.

No, that is not a fact.

Yes, it is a fact.

TIME had an article on it. Blacks scored significantly lower.

The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances. If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.

A lot of them stay "gangsta" after getting rich. You can accuse me of being discriminatory, but just talk to:
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Webber
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Michael Irvin

Still not convinced? I've got a lot more examples where those came from...oh, here's another: Bonzi Wells. Oh, and another: Jason Kidd.

Exactly, and that fact is what lends people to calling the SAT 'racist'

Oh yes, asking you to write essays and solve math problems is so racist.

Just because I am not familiar with the testing format that is used in the US.

LOL.

Format as in filling in the A,B,C,D,E bubbles?

Is it fair to conclude that Asians must be in charge of writing the SAT tests, i.e. that the SATs are Asian-centric, and thus non-Asian students do relatively poorly?

Actually, TIME's chart showed that Whites were pretty close.