Who is Responsible for the Violence in the Middle East?

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  • Thread starter Thread starter Bilal
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the complexities of violence in the Middle East, particularly focusing on the roles of various actors, including the U.S. and British governments, insurgents, and historical figures like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. Participants explore themes of responsibility, moral implications, and the impact of military actions on civilians, with a strong emphasis on the situation in Iraq.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the U.S. and British governments bear responsibility for the violence due to their historical support of leaders like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.
  • Others suggest that the actions of insurgents against coalition forces are justified in light of the suffering of civilians.
  • A participant questions the morality of military actions, suggesting that the deaths of civilians are often overlooked in discussions about military strategy.
  • Some express skepticism about the numbers of civilian casualties reported, with claims that these figures may be exaggerated or misrepresented.
  • There are assertions that the narrative surrounding military actions often shifts blame onto Iraqis, framing coalition forces as responding to Iraqi aggression rather than initiating violence.
  • Participants discuss the emotional impact of witnessing violence, noting that those directly affected may develop a mindset that leads to insurgency.
  • Concerns are raised about the motivations behind military interventions, with some viewing them as imperialistic rather than humanitarian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the responsibility for violence in the Middle East. Disagreements persist regarding the moral implications of military actions and the justification of insurgent responses.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific incidents and statistics, but these claims are not universally accepted and remain contested within the discussion. The complexity of moral issues surrounding military engagement and civilian casualties is acknowledged but not resolved.

  • #31
Bilal said:
- I did not say that USA is evil! I am scientific researcher and I know the contribution of American in human civilization. The topic is about the endless wars of the neoconservatives and their crusade in our region. If you think that Bush, Cheney , Rice, … are America , then it is your problem.

Well... technically they are :rolleyes:. The outcome of the most recent election is proof of their victory. That, combined with a Republican majority in congress, and the possibility of appointees to the Supreme Court, means that their views are representative of those who elected them (a bit of a generalization).

Bilal said:
After all of that: You call it; war for freedom!

Bilal, not all Americans are pleased with the Bush Administration's foreign policy. America itself is divided and highly polarized on this issue as well as others.
 
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  • #32
My heart aches for the little girl in OP. I would wish to give her (and siblings?) sanctuary and peace in my home, and protect her and her family from the cruelty that has been visited upon them.
 
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  • #33
Gruesome ! I wish death to all American soldiers/murderers,American government and their supporters. !
There is simply no excuse for what they did to those people.
 
  • #34
Settle down Spender.
 
  • #35
Sorry about that. :frown:
 
  • #36
Bilal said:
Saudi Arabia paid 30 Millions cash + 10 Millions to Earth quakes centers in Indian Ocean + (at least 82 Millions) from the people = 122 Millions
In the case of Saudi Arabia you considered contributions from all sources (Govt, private, etc.), so being a scientific researcher, I guess you did the same calculation for the US too, right ?

USA paid 350 Millions
What, you didn't ?! Ooh, that's not fair now, is it ?

Here, I can help some :

US Govt : 350 million

Private Donations : 650 million

Costs of operation, services, fuel consumption, maintenance, etc. of one Carrier Group and one Marine Expeditionary Unit : several millions of dollars per day, but I don't know the numbers. Some of these costs would be borne anyway, but at a minimum this will cost an additional 100 million a month.

But this is not directly pertinent to the thread. I ask all you folks who think the US armed services don't care if they kill innocent civilians (and take them to hospitals only if there are cameras around) : what does the US have to gain by being murderous devils ? How does it serve their self-interest to kill innocents, anger the public, weaken their support base, strengthen the enemies and in general, make everything much harder for themselves ?

Could it be that these things happen despite their efforts to minimize it ? Could it be that the nature of the conflict makes it virtually impossible to not have civilian casualty ? Could it be that seeing graphic visual images has caused you to react emotionally rather than reasonably ? Could it be that all the journalists and news cameras in the area tend to travel with the armed forces, and none want to hang out with the insurgents ? Could it help you consider both sides of the story, if you saw pictures and videos of civilians killed by insurgent attacks, bombings, and beheadings ?

I certainly do not contend that all of the above are always true, but I guess you'd answer 'no' to every one of them ?
 
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  • #37
Gokul43201 said:
Private Donations : 650 million
And that doesn't include corporate donations, which are substantial as well.
 
  • #38
"This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere...were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees."
Rudolf Hoess, SS commandant, Auschwitz.
source
 
  • #40
russ_watters said:
And that doesn't include corporate donations, which are substantial as well.
The company I work for is contributing 4 million - 2 million up front, 1 milion in employee donation matching and another million over the next year.
 
  • #41
Pfizer : $10 million cash + $25 million in healthcare products
Pepsi : $1 million cash + water and other bottled drinks
Microsoft : $3 million cash

Many large and medium sized companies (Intel, Cisco, Time Warner) are matching employee donations in addition to their contributions

Two weeks ago, I heard the total from Corporate donations was about $200 million. What it is now, I haven't found out.
 

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