Who Was Behind the Death of Alexei Navalny?

  • News
  • Thread starter Astronuc
  • Start date
  • #1
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
2023 Award
21,973
6,510
  • Sad
  • Wow
  • Like
Likes collinsmark, mcastillo356, BillTre and 5 others
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Sad, but inevitable, given Putin's inclinations. Preliminary reports from Russia are calling it natural causes. Right.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970 and BillTre
  • #3
Astronuc said:
Navalny dies has been murdered
I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?
 
  • #4
His fate was sealed when he decided to return to Russia. I never understood this. He should have stayed in Berlin among literally thousands of other Russians. I mean he has been nearly assassinated, barely survived, and then returned to a place where his murderers could try again?
 
  • Like
Likes morrobay, pinball1970, BillTre and 1 other person
  • #5
Vanadium 50 said:
I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?
You mean other than the fact that they tried before?
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970 and BillTre
  • #6
fresh_42 said:
You mean other than the fact that they tried before?
AND the fact that Putin has made it clear that he wants his opponents dead and has had several of them murdered? He likely didn't even have to give a specific order to have Navalny killed in prison.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970 and BillTre
  • #7
Reminder to keep the discussion, apolitical, neutral bias, and on topic.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters
  • #8
phinds said:
AND the fact that Putin has made it clear that he wants his opponents dead and has had several of them murdered? He likely didn't even have to give a specific order to have Navalny killed in prison.
A commentator here said: "He was kept under circumstances under which a healthy person would have struggled to survive."
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970 and BillTre
  • #9
phinds said:
Sad, but inevitable, given Putin's inclinations. Preliminary reports from Russia are calling it natural causes. Right.
Probably just food poisoning.
 
  • Haha
Likes Borg
  • #10
Greg Bernhardt said:
Reminder to keep the discussion, apolitical, neutral bias, and on topic.
Sorry, but this is a contradiction in itself.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre
  • #11
Astronuc said:
Alexei Navalny dies has been murdered in prison
There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal, simplistic and law-bound for this kind of deed regularly done in dictatorships.
 
  • #12
russ_watters said:
Probably just food poisoning.
Probably too risky in case someone decides to allow an autopsy. The Russian winter in a Russian gulag did the job for nothing.
 
  • #13
fresh_42 said:
Sorry, but this is a contradiction in itself.
Maybe that was my point... this thread is likely not long for this world
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters
  • #14
Vanadium 50 said:
I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?
I'm sure there is. Is it available to an objective entity? Most likely not.

Rive said:
There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal
I'm using the legal term, which is conventionally and universally understood to mean, 'unjustified or illegal, or otherwise, 'unlawful and premeditated' homicide'.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre, pinball1970 and russ_watters
  • #15
Greg Bernhardt said:
Maybe that was my point... this thread is likely not long for this world
There is actually a good reason to close it before anybody says something that might bring them into trouble in case they want or have to travel to Russia for professional reasons.

I am glad my avatar picture on a bridge over the Terek was taken long ago.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970
  • #16
I accept that we keep politics out of PF, but the price is that a thread like this cannot remain open. To keep it open and for no one to say anything feels like we all have our heads in the sand or our hands over our eyes.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre, Borg, pinball1970 and 2 others
  • #17
PeroK said:
I accept that we keep politics out of PF, but the price is that a thread like this cannot remain open. To keep it open and for no one to say anything feels like we all have our heads in the sand or our hands over our eyes.
... especially with the many assassinations of Russians on British and German ground in mind. Proof? A German court hasn't had any doubt. That is more than I can ever quote from the internet.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre, pinball1970 and PeroK
  • #18
russ_watters said:
Probably just food poisoning.
Or walking, he died following a walk. That's pretty reckless behaviour.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre
  • #19
Astronuc said:
I'm using the legal term, which is conventionally and universally understood to mean, 'unjustified or illegal, or otherwise, 'unlawful and premeditated' homicide'.
Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...:confused:
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre
  • #20
Rive said:
Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...:confused:
Claims are he spent 280 days in isolation up to his death.
 
  • #21
fresh_42 said:
His fate was sealed when he decided to return to Russia. I never understood this. He should have stayed in Berlin among literally thousands of other Russians.
That would have probably not saved him.

A German judge accused Russia of state terrorism over the murder in Berlin's Tiergarten of Zelimkhan Khangoshvili, an ethnic Chechen of Georgian citizenship who commanded a militia in Chechnya's failed war seeking independence from Russia in the 2000s.
HOW WAS PUTIN INVOLVED?
The judge said the order to kill Khangoshvili, who was no longer active in the Chechen independence movement, must have come from Putin, noting that Russian law gave him power to authorise operations to kill people the state regards as "terrorists", even abroad. Russia contests the judge's interpretation.
Source:
https://www.reuters.com/world/vadim...an-putin-wants-swap-us-journalist-2024-02-09/
 
  • #23
Some background.

He was exposed to a nerve agent in 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039123/

That would potentially shorten his life combined with a long term stay in a high security facility in Russia, with multiple stints in solitary confinement.
Years were added too.
Be interesting to get info on the autopsy if they allow that.
 
Last edited:
  • #25
pinball1970 said:
Some background.

He was exposed to an agent in 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039123/

That would potentially shorten his life combined with a long term stay in a high security facility in Russia, with multiple stints is solitary confinement.
Years were added too.
Be interesting to get info on the autopsy if they allow that.
And after that, he made in 2020 an interesting telephone call.

Navalny says he tricked spy into admitting poisoning
Source (i.e. at 11m20s):

 
  • Like
Likes BillTre, pinball1970 and fresh_42
  • #26
Rive said:
There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal, simplistic and law-bound for this kind of deed regularly done in dictatorships.
"Trotsky/i was blanked/assassinated/icepicked/rockpicked...?" He got Trotskied, perhaps? No question who ordered it; one might offer the term "Beria'd" to keep with the spirit, if not the sense/feeling of the event.
 
  • #27
Another airplane "accident" would have been too suspicious for a gulag prisoner.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970
  • #28
Frabjous said:
I would use the word “executed”.
Not repellent enough.

Navalny deserves a standing ovation but sadly will never see it now.
 
  • Like
Likes BillTre and pinball1970
  • #29
fresh_42 said:
You mean other than the fact that they tried before?
Yes, that's exactly what I am asking.
 
  • #30
Vanadium 50 said:
Yes, that's exactly what I am asking.
Putin is an old Большевики and probably did what they always did: let the Russian winter and the ГУЛаг do the job. I assume that Новичо́к (##LD_{50}=1\,mg##) has set the stage for them to work.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970
  • #31
I don't read Russian.

I admit that Putin has reason to murder him. I admit that he is a bad, bad person who has done many bad things. I am asking if there is evidence that he has done this particular bad thing.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters
  • #32
Putin missed a trick here. He should have planted a copy of the Quran in Navalny's cell and got the IDF to assassinate him. Then he would have been in the clear.
 
  • Haha
Likes BillTre
  • #33
fresh_42 said:
Putin is an old Большевики and probably did what they always did: let the Russian winter and the ГУЛаг do the job. I assume that Новичо́к (##LD_{50}=1\,mg##) has set the stage for them to work.
Just some help with the use of foreign language:
Большевики - plural, Большевик - singular,
Новичо́к - Новичёк.
 
  • #34
Vanadium 50 said:
I don't read Russian.

I admit that Putin has reason to murder him. I admit that he is a bad, bad person who has done many bad things. I am asking if there is evidence that he has done this particular bad thing.
If there is evidence I don't think it will be available. If everything I read on wiki regarding the last couple of years of his life is close to accurate, then he could have actually died following a walk in that place. I made a flippant comment about that but it was intended as sarcasm, as people as a rule do not die at 47 from walking.
However, following his poisoning, incarceration, solitary confinement, denied medical attention, deprived of sleep over long periods, added time to sentence adding to his stress, he could have just died after three years of it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Sad
Likes Astronuc, phinds, Rive and 3 others
  • #35
And now they are officially after his brother. Kin liability is typical for dictatorships.
 
  • Sad
Likes Rive, pinball1970, collinsmark and 1 other person

Similar threads

  • Aerospace Engineering
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • Biology and Medical
Replies
21
Views
2K
Back
Top