Why aren't drones and aircraft using hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and practicality of using hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells in drones and aircraft, focusing on efficiency, energy density, and current technology limitations. It encompasses theoretical considerations, technical challenges, and practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that hydrogen fuel cells could provide a significant flight time advantage over lithium-ion batteries due to their efficiency.
  • Others argue that hydrogen has low energy density and that the associated storage systems, fuel, and motors are expensive.
  • It is noted that most power in current aircraft comes from engines, with batteries serving primarily as emergency backups, which may not significantly impact overall flight time.
  • Some participants express that while hydrogen gas has a high energy density, its practical application in drones is limited by the costs and complexities of storage and fuel systems.
  • There is a mention of the Hindenburg as a historical example of hydrogen use in aviation, though not for power, highlighting concerns about safety and public perception.
  • Participants discuss the advantages of lithium batteries, noting their high energy density and suitability for drone applications compared to hydrogen fuel cells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement regarding the practicality of hydrogen fuel cells in drones, with multiple competing views on energy density, cost, and application suitability remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of energy density, the complexity of hydrogen fuel systems, and the unresolved nature of the cost-benefit analysis between hydrogen fuel cells and lithium-ion batteries.

Jarfi
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I've heard they were much more efficient then li-ion batteries and anything else really.. and drones today are all about flight time, wouldn't hydrogen fuel cells result in a great flight time advantage? why are they not in use?
 
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Too low energy density. Expensive storage systems. Expensive fuel. Expensive motor.
 
Most of the power on aircraft today comes from the engines. The batteries are used as emergency backup in case of a failure, which means that the batteries efficiency are not a major cause of flight time reduction
 
Doug Huffman said:
Too low energy density. Expensive storage systems. Expensive fuel. Expensive motor.

The motor is an electric motor, they are the same as for normal li-ion batteries.

Energy density of hydrogen gas is yes, large which I must admit, having a gas tank for hydrogen in a drone would certainly make things more expensive I admit.
donpacino said:
Most of the power on aircraft today comes from the engines. The batteries are used as emergency backup in case of a failure, which means that the batteries efficiency are not a major cause of flight time reduction

I am not meaning conventional aircraft but electric aircraft as in drones that use electric motors. Hydrogen fuel cells generate electricity from hydrogen and oxygen
 
Jarfi said:
I am not meaning conventional aircraft but electric aircraft as in drones that use electric motors. Hydrogen fuel cells generate electricity from hydrogen and oxygen

Wow I am a dummy.
Shows how you can get locked into one idea!
 
Jarfi said:
I've heard they were much more efficient then li-ion batteries and anything else really.. and drones today are all about flight time, wouldn't hydrogen fuel cells result in a great flight time advantage? why are they not in use?

A picture of the last aircraft which used hydrogen in a big way (but not for power):

1-the-hindenburg-1937-granger.jpg


The Hindenburg​
 
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Jarfi said:
Energy density of hydrogen gas is yes, large which I must admit, having a gas tank for hydrogen in a drone would certainly make things more expensive I admit.
Energy density of hydrogen gas compared to Li-Ion batteries is very low
the batteries give you the "best bang for buck"

Dave
 
Last edited:
SteamKing said:
A picture of the last aircraft which used hydrogen in a big way (but not for power):

The Hindenburg
Alas, there's always going to be one passenger who ignores the "No Smoking" sign.
 
davenn said:
Energy density of hydrogen gas compared to Li-Ion batteries is very low
the batteries give you the "best bang for buck"

Dave

Yup, Lithium batteries aren't too shabby.. especially the high end ones have mad energy density; http://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/r-panasonic-ncr18650b-button-top.html this is just mindblowing..

Anyways yeah you guys are right, hydrogen fuel cells are complex and spacey... which is exactly the opposite of what a drone needs, drones have to be as light and neat as possible. It's probably more of a thing for cars, I think a number of electric cars actually this tech
 
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