Why do electrons in lower atomic orbits have smaller wavelengths?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the energy levels of atomic electrons and their associated wavelengths. Participants explore the implications of lower atomic orbits having smaller wavelengths and the underlying principles of energy, frequency, and potential energy in atomic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the notion that electrons in lower orbits have smaller wavelengths, contrasting it with their prior understanding that lower orbits would correspond to larger wavelengths.
  • It is noted that energy is proportional to frequency and inversely proportional to wavelength, suggesting that lower energy levels should correlate with smaller wavelengths.
  • One participant elaborates that electrons in lower orbits have relatively less energy, which leads to higher kinetic energy and lower potential energy, resulting in smaller wavelengths and higher frequencies.
  • Another participant challenges the clarity of defining wavelength for electrons in atomic orbits, citing the influence of potential energy on momentum and the limitations of applying classical concepts to quantum systems.
  • The Virial theorem is mentioned, indicating that electrons with high kinetic energy will have significantly more negative potential energy compared to those in lower energy states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of wavelength in relation to energy levels, with some asserting a direct relationship while others question the applicability of such definitions in quantum mechanics. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity in defining wavelength for electrons in atomic states and the dependence on the interpretation of energy and potential energy relationships. The discussion reflects a mix of classical and quantum mechanical perspectives.

daisey
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I was previously under the impression that an atomic electron in its lowest orbit has a larger wavelength than an electron in a higher atomic orbit. I read earlier today that lower orbiting electrons actually have smaller wavelengths. :confused:

This seems backwards since electrons naturally try to settle into lower orbits, which have lower energies (I thought). And I normally equate energy with wavelength.
 
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daisey said:
I was previously under the impression that an atomic electron in its lowest orbit has a larger wavelength than an electron in a higher atomic orbit. I read earlier today that lower orbiting electrons actually have smaller wavelengths. :confused:

This seems backwards since electrons naturally try to settle into lower orbits, which have lower energies (I thought). And I normally equate energy with wavelength.

Energy is proportional to frequency, which means it's *inversely* proportional to wavelength.
 
PeterDonis said:
Energy is proportional to frequency, which means it's *inversely* proportional to wavelength.
So electrons in lower orbits have...

* Relatively less energy
- Higher Kinetic Energy
- Lower Potential Energy
* Smaller Wavelength
* Higher Frequency
 
Wavelength isn't something that is well defined for an electron in an atom, for the same reason that momentum p = \hbar/\lambda can't be well defined; the potential keeps the electron from settling into a momentum eigenstate.

You can do things like compute the expectation value of kinetic energy 1/2m \langle p^2 \rangle which will be non-zero. And it will be true that electrons in lower energy levels will have more kinetic energy, but they will also have a much more negative potential energy. In fact, the Virial theorem applies, so \langle V \langle = -2\langle T \rangle, so an electron in a state with large kinetic energy will have a much larger potential energy than an electron in a state with low kinetic energy.
 

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