Why does atmospheric pressure not keep liquids inside upside down cups?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of liquids in upside down cups and the role of atmospheric pressure in maintaining the liquid inside. Participants explore the conditions under which atmospheric pressure can keep liquids contained, comparing this to the behavior observed in straws and vortex bottles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why atmospheric pressure does not keep liquids inside upside down cups, suggesting that the greater radius of the cup should provide a greater upward force.
  • Another participant explains that the effect can be observed in upside down cups if the mouth of the cup is below the water level, emphasizing the importance of the width of the opening for pressure differences to hold the water.
  • It is noted that small variations in pressure can lead to air bubbles forming, which disrupts the seal and allows the liquid to escape.
  • A comparison is made to straws, where a narrow opening restricts the number of potential issues that could arise, thereby maintaining the liquid more effectively.
  • The concept of a vortex bottle is introduced as a demonstration of the effect, highlighting that the size of the connecting hole is crucial for the phenomenon to occur.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the relationship between the uneven force of atmospheric pressure in wide openings and the vortex bottle example.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of atmospheric pressure in keeping liquids contained in upside down cups, with some agreeing that the width of the opening plays a significant role while others remain uncertain about the implications of this on the vortex bottle demonstration.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the influence of the opening size and the potential for air bubbles to disrupt the liquid's containment, but do not resolve the specifics of how these factors interact in various scenarios.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring fluid dynamics, atmospheric pressure effects, and practical demonstrations of these concepts in experimental settings.

electronicsguy
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If I hold the top end of a straw filled with water, the water stays in the straw which is due to the atmospheric pressure. How come this effect is not seen in upside down cups? Should the atmospheric pressure keep the liquid inside it within the cup since the other end is closed? Also, the radius of the cup is greater which means greater upward force.
 
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Welcome to PF;
You do see this effect in upside down cups - provided the mouth of the cup is below water level.
The key here is the width of the opening.

For the pressure difference to hold the water in the container, it needs to be exerted evenly over the whole surface.
A small variation, even for a moment, will make one side heavier, allowing a bubble of air to form and break the seal. You can see it if you use a glass jar - watch the opening as you lift it clear of the water.

Over a small surface, though, the variations do not usually build up so much.
You can break the symmetry by tilting the straw (if i's a wide one).
[If the straw is very narrow, then capillary effects can become important too.]

Your narrow straw is just restricting the number of things that can possibly go wrong ;)

The classic demonstration of the effect is in a vortex bottle -
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Vortex-in-a-Bottle/
... the connecting hole has to be small (how small? experiment!) to make it work.
If you just up-ended the bottles quickly, no vortex forms, and water does not flow from one bottle to the next.
 
Ok so the uneven force of the atmospheric pressure due to a wide opening does not hold the liquid in tact. How does this have anything to do with the vortex bottle?
 
Try the bottle and see - experiment with different sized holes (without swirling the water).
 

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