Why does my social life suck so much?

[Moonbear]

I don't go to pick up women. I just enjoy talking to them. (flirting is the most fun and interesting because you test each others wit).

Yes, flirting can be fun and everyone leaves feeling good, even if nothing more ever happens. I'm still waiting for the day when you meet "the one" though, and find yourself tongue-tied and speechless over her.

 

[proton]

Also, how old do you look proton? If you look young. Try to look older and talk to older women.

I would recommend eventually going to a bar because if you can talk to a woman in a cut-throat environment, talking to a woman (or anyone for that matter) anywhere else is a breeze.

i'm a little asian nerd, so people think I'm a freshman. i thought you said not to go to bars yet since i have no close friends and lack social skills

Volunteer with a local charitable organization. You will find yourself working alongside decent people in a non-threatening environment. You don't have to hit on the females there - just be friendly and work hard. Many women are born match-makers and if they like you but don't have a personal interest in you, they'll hook you up with one of their friends. Male friends will be easier to develop, too, since you won't be in what a lot of guys consider a competitive situation, like a bar or a party scene.

i just joined a volunteer group a couple weeks ago. i'll see within the next couple weeks if its a good fit or not

 

[Cyrus]

Lots of asian people are small and thin, yet still come across as very fashionable. What kind of 'look' do you normally have? What do you usually wear. What do you do with your hair, do you have a beard? All these things make a difference on how people perceive you. When you come off as a 'cool' looking person, people naturally start talking to you. Not the other way around. See if you know any asian guys that are the same height and build as you and see what looks good on them. It will probably work for you too and is a starting point on finding a style that works.

 

[proton]

i have a fairly conservative look - usually a hoodie and jeans. i don't look really fashionable, yet i don't look like a total geek/nerd

 

[Cyrus]

Ditch the hoodie. Find something better to wear. You look 'normal'. Look fashionable.

Examples: A sweater with t-shirt over top and jeans.

A sweater with collar shirt and tie underneath. (less tie if your lazy)

Sweater with vest over it.

If you wear glasses (which I do), find a pair that compliments your face.

 

[Astronuc]

My fashion was jeans and T-shirt.

i'm a little asian nerd, so people think I'm a freshman.

My daughter would go for that. So don't worry. My daughter also likes intelligent conversation.

 

[Moonbear]

i'm a little asian nerd, so people think I'm a freshman.

There's hope for you yet. The young female student who had been here for two weeks "shadowing" me describes herself as a "nerdy Asian" too, and she was anything but nerdy. She was so sure she was going to wait until after she graduated before she worried about dating because she was worried dating would distract her from her studies. I told her that was just plain silly, that any guy who was "right" for her and respected her would not interfere with her studies, but it's a lot harder to meet a guy after you're out of school than before. I got the impression from her that a lot of her friends view dating similarly. So, there may be a whole bunch of young Asian "nerdy" women around just waiting for someone to persuade them to have some fun with them.

If people think you look a lot younger than you are (aside from this being something you'll learn to appreciate when you're older), take Cyrus' advice about paying attention to what you wear. If you dress more "professionally," it'll help you look more like your age rather than like a young kid. It doesn't hurt to start building a professional wardrobe anyway, because some day you're going to graduate and get a real job, and you're going to need to dress professionally then anyway.

 

[Cyrus]

Replace hoddie with these possible looks

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/adidas-pistol-pete-jacket.jpg

http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/standalone/details/fashion/0507/khaki/00004f.jpg

http://www.pilotshopusa.com/images_products/1045.jpg


There are all kinds of looks out there. Magazines, and music bands are a good way find 'cool' looks.

Now, contrast that with hoodie.

Not so good, is it?

 

[proton]

So, there may be a whole bunch of young Asian "nerdy" women around just waiting for someone to persuade them to have some fun with them.

well i certainly have not met any asian nerdy girls who also want to have fun. the only asian girls I've met are either much more talkative or social than me, or even more shy/awkward than me, which i don't find attractive

 

[proton]

Not so good, is it?

well of course that doesn't look good, the guy wearing a bandana and hoodie with guns lol. the guys i say have personalities closest to me dress similar to how i currently dress, so i don't think my clothes are the problem

 

[_Mayday_]

Just get out a bit more, and go so social gathering. You will slowly meet people, and then make better friends.

 

[BobG]

Replace hoddie with these possible looks

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/adidas-pistol-pete-jacket.jpg

http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/standalone/details/fashion/0507/khaki/00004f.jpg

http://www.pilotshopusa.com/images_products/1045.jpg


There are all kinds of looks out there. Magazines, and music bands are a good way find 'cool' looks.

Now, contrast that with hoodie.

Not so good, is it?

Not exactly an impartial sample pool there. You compared Mick Jagger and six Physics students to a psycho killer.

 

[Cyrus]

I did not say personality. I said body type.

Had to drive the point home bob. But when I see a hoddy, that's what I think of. 99% of the time I see someone wearing a hoodie is becaue they are too lazy to wear something else.

 

[Math Is Hard]

well i certainly have not met any asian nerdy girls who also want to have fun. the only asian girls I've met are either much more talkative or social than me, or even more shy/awkward than me, which i don't find attractive

So, "less social than you" is unattractive, and "more social than you" is unattractive?

 

[proton]

So, "less social than you" is unattractive, and "more social than you" is unattractive?

more social than me is attractive, i just don't like my odds of getting them

 

[Math Is Hard]

You forgot this look, Cyrus...

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Entertainment/ap_borat_071222_ms.jpg

 

[turbo]

My fashion was jeans and T-shirt.

Mine, too, and I still adhere to that. Well-worn jeans, sneakers, and soft old T-shirts are my normal "skin". I wore them to class, to social functions, and when performing on weekends. My band was a pretty laid-back bunch and we relied on our sound to make the impact, not our appearance. We had a drummer for a while that liked to dress nice, but he was hidden behind his kit including a screen of Zildjian cymbals, so he didn't count so much. Our black blues heroes were fashion-plates compared to us.

 

[Cyrus]

HOW MUCHHHHHHHHHHHH!?

I sware if you wore that you would get so many women and high fives from guys MIH.

 

[Moonbear]

the guys i say have personalities closest to me dress similar to how i currently dress, so i don't think my clothes are the problem

But that is a problem, because you shouldn't dress based only on your personality but on your body type. If you tend to look young and are wearing hoodies, which are a very young look (I think of those as something teenagers wear), then you're only going to reinforce that you're young. Instead, dress older (but still trendy...you don't want to suddenly look 40 either) just to look more your own age.

Some good looks for a young Asian guy:
http://www.drivenmag.com/images/newsMgr/dragonboys.jpg
The guy in the front. The others look too much like Asian mafia or old businessman.

Or a shirt like this paired with jeans would look very casual and cool.
http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direct/dbimage/50288161/Men_s_Long_Sleeve_Shirt.jpg
(Make sure it FITS...if you wear a shirt too large, you just look more like a kid trying to play "dress up.")

 

[Moonbear]

more social than me is attractive, i just don't like my odds of getting them

I think your odds might be better than you think. I've often seen very talkative women paired up with quiet, shy guys. Afterall, if they're so talkative, it's best if the guy they're with isn't competing with that. On the other hand, don't dismiss those quieter than you. They may just need a few well-placed compliments to draw them out of their shells.

 

[BobG]

I'd second the recommendation for groups like Homes for Humanity, conservation projects, etc. Doing something together gives something neutral to talk about and makes it easier to eventually move on to other conversation topics.

 

[proton]

I think your odds might be better than you think. I've often seen very talkative women paired up with quiet, shy guys. Afterall, if they're so talkative, it's best if the guy they're with isn't competing with that.

i thought confidence is what women mainly look for. some quiet, shy guys have it, but most like me don't have enough

 

[chroot]

I dunno. Some of the guys Cyrus posted look like douches to me. His little story about offering the paint the girl nude was a little douchebag, too, if you ask me. Although I suppose it's all in the delivery. If I told stories of my pick-up conquests on physicsforums I'm sure I'd sound like a douchebag too.

- Warren

 

[Moonbear]

i thought confidence is what women mainly look for. some quiet, shy guys have it, but most like me don't have enough

Often confidence is what they look for, but you can develop that. Not all women are the same, just as not all men are the same.

Focus on just developing social interactions with other people first, and that will help build your confidence for when you start to talk to women you're interested in. Honestly, women are people too, even the pretty women. Once you get over getting flustered thinking they're so different, you'll have an easier time meeting them and in turn, they'll be more comfortable with you.

 

[turbo]

i thought confidence is what women mainly look for. some quiet, shy guys have it, but most like me don't have enough

Many women don't look for confidence. They look for honesty and openness. Confidence is often seen as "I know what's right" and many women are turned off by that attitude.

 

[Moonbear]

I dunno. Some of the guys Cyrus posted look like douches to me. His little story about offering the paint the girl nude was a little douchebag, too, if you ask me. Although I suppose it's all in the delivery. If I told stories of my pick-up conquests on physicsforums I'm sure I'd sound like a douchebag too.

- Warren

Yeah, if I saw a guy dressed in any of those outfits, I'd think "dork." Depending on the way we met, I might still give him a chance, but would probably be expecting that I'd have to buy him clothes for every special occassion.

And, yes, the delivery often makes or breaks something like that. I was thinking that too...if some guy offered to paint me in the nude, if I was already attracted, I might find it humorous, otherwise, I might be looking for my escape route.

 

[rocomath]

You should quit checking this thread and go out!

I went out 3x today! Didn't meet anyone new, but ran into friends. Wasn't a total waste of time.

 

[Moonbear]

Confidence is often seen as "I know what's right" and many women are turned off by that attitude.

No, that's cockiness. Confidence can be simply being comfortable enough within one's own skin to be able to admit to making a mistake.

 

[Chipmunks]

My social life sux too, because
I have pressures at work, as a game programmer, I have to build my own GUI applications by borrowing third party libs and others' code. But I believe this'll bring me up in public. My belief works!

 

[turbo]

No, that's cockiness. Confidence can be simply being comfortable enough within one's own skin to be able to admit to making a mistake.

That's a fine line when encountering new people. Confidence is often a gentle self-assurance. I did not often see this in my peers in college aside from close friends.

 

[smashingtime]

lawl some girls find nerds cute, as long as they're not overly into academics--like sleeping with your physics book under your pillow or something. stay confident & start conversations with new people! if you keep a good sense of humor and keep your complexion clean, you'll find friends in no time :)

 

[Poop-Loops]

I guess I'll chime in, since my situation is similar.

How do you "make friends"? People frequently tell me to get a girlfriend. Okay. I didn't see any for sale in Safeway. So is it some sort of magical procedure that everybody but me understands? Because to me you might as well say "Fix the flux capacitor."

This applies to making friends in general. All, all of the friends I have made in college so far have initiated the friendship, i.e. they started talking to me, not the other way around. I just had extreme amounts of luck to befriend them in the first place.

And before you ask, yes, I am completely detached from the world. After some digging, I think I may be a schizoid personality type.

I mean, I am not shy or anxious, I can do public speaking, talk to my professors after and before class all the time, had jobs where I talked to customers, and I don't think I show emotional coldness as one of the symptoms, but it just seems like I couldn't care less about being social.

It's not even that I am lonely and want friends, it's that I feel I am missing out on something, I just don't even know what.

How I dress:

I have long hair, but it's always clean and groomed. It goes down below my shoulders. Clean-shaven, unless it's exam week and I couldn't care less. Jeans and a t-shirt are what I usually wear. Err... always, actually.

And I should add that I tend not to make "nerd talk", i.e. I could care less about physics the moment I step outside the classroom (sorry, it's true). So if I do talk to people, I'm not that annoying guy that only sticks to one boring topic or something. It's just that I never actually get into conversations.

 

[JasonRox]

Go live in the dorms. Try playing video games or watching movies with the other people, regardless of whether you know anything about the games or movies yet. Allow other people to show you what they're interested in, and allow yourself to get interested in the same things. You do not need to study 24/7 to do well in college, and social skills are an important part of your education.

- Warren

Good posts.

I agree with Warren here.

 

[JasonRox]

No, that's cockiness. Confidence can be simply being comfortable enough within one's own skin to be able to admit to making a mistake.

Yeah, it's good to point this out. Some guys believe by being cocky they're being confident.

Confident comes from your inner self. You can't "pretend" you have confidence and high self-esteem. A fairly well-minded person would know if you're a fake or not. Plus, if something happens, you're self-esteem may even drop lower than it was previously. I know someone suggested to fake it in an early post and I strongly advise you NOT to take that advice.

 

[JasonRox]

Not necessarily true. You can turn a girl on by saying the right things. I am not a stud, and I am not buff. But I can talk to to women. (Something most buff guys CANT do).

I dress trendy. Boarderline gay. Girls LOVE it. Women compliment me on the way I dress a lot. Its nothing to do about how I look either.

LOL. I'm the same way.

Edit: I disagree with two things I saw in your list of fashion advice. Well, the 3 button suits are fine. It depends on the cut and your size. If you're fat, well definitely not. I have a 3 button suit, and I've got lots of compliments in it. I did my research.

The other thing is the taylor. You must beware of taylor's because not everything on a shirt can be made to fit you. If you're a small, and you buy a medium, it's not going to fit you. A taylor can not make a shirt one size smaller. A taylor can fix the arms, a little bit on the shoulders and the how the shirt snugs up to your body, but that's it. You can only get so much done. It's best to buy something as close you can to your body. If you can't get anywhere close, forget it. Also, avoid buying sizes one size bigger because it "will" shrink into your size. That's a load of ****. I buy the size that fits as close to perfect as I am in the store. I then wash my clothes the way it's suppose to be washed. Lots of my clothes don't even see the dryer.

Another one is stay away from Wal-Mart and places that have cheap clothes. They're cheap because the material is cheap and the cut is ****. No taylor can fix that. I used buy cheap, but now I never ever buy cheap. I personally wear different styles to match the evening, the day, the season or mood or whatever. Places I go most often on Abercrombie and Fitch, Hollister, Banana Republic and other places. Being a thin european body type, cheap stores don't have proper clothing for me because they're made for the general public which is overweight people (even the small size).

 

[Beeza]

Man.. I like my Wal-mart clothes and jeans from Macy's.

 

[Poop-Loops]

I buy my clothes at a grocery store.

 

[binzing]

I hate the Hollister wearers at my school. They're all the stuck-up cali boys and girls, along with the preppies. God, high school is much better than my middle school, way more people like me and I surmise it gets better progressively at uni or college in that there's larger student populations.
Another mini-rant, I positively hate the word "normal" when applied to people and personalities.
Jason and Cyrus, yeah, putting some money into it works. I got two nice pairs of jeans this fall and have gotten multiple compliments. Cyrus, the word your thinking of isn't gay, its metro.Ha ha, which is fine, as long as you don't start talking in a higher octave, etc.

 

[JasonRox]

I hate the Hollister wearers at my school. They're all the stuck-up cali boys and girls, along with the preppies. God, high school is much better than my middle school, way more people like me and I surmise it gets better progressively at uni or college in that there's larger student populations.
Another mini-rant, I positively hate the word "normal" when applied to people and personalities.
Jason and Cyrus, yeah, putting some money into it works. I got two nice pairs of jeans this fall and have gotten multiple compliments. Cyrus, the word your thinking of isn't gay, its metro.Ha ha, which is fine, as long as you don't start talking in a higher octave, etc.

I know what you mean about people who wear Hollister. I just don't buy shirts with Hollister or any name plastered all over it.

That's why I really like Banana Republic. They don't have things plastered all over it saying it's from BR.

 

[binzing]

Some of my friends actually made some shirts with "Wal-ister" on them.

 

[pivoxa15]

6 pages+ in one day. That's crazy.

I'm like you Proton. However I reckon that one way to battle this problem is to really concentrate on your academics and aim for top. That way you might become more popular, boost your self-esteem and people will want to talk to you more. At least they might start asking you questions. Friends can be made that way. Someone like us will probably only have good friends that are also nerds.

 

[EnumaElish]

Just be with people as much as you can. Talking is good, but being around people is better than sitting by yourself, and it can be a start to something better. Set yourself somewhat challenging goals (for being social) and try to achieve at least two out of three. If you consistently achieve all your goals then they are not challenging enough.

 

[Cyrus]

I dunno. Some of the guys Cyrus posted look like douches to me. His little story about offering the paint the girl nude was a little douchebag, too, if you ask me. Although I suppose it's all in the delivery. If I told stories of my pick-up conquests on physicsforums I'm sure I'd sound like a douchebag too.

- Warren

Douche, at your service

As the saying goes, nice guys finish last. So thanks for the compliment!

Anyways, the point of what I said was to be witty, but FUNNY. I had a big grin on my face when I said it, and she opend up to me afterwards. I wasnt serious, it was simply the right thing to say at the time. The story simply illustrates the basics of bar conversation. I brought her guard down, it was sexual which conveyed my interest in her sexually, and it showed I was not afraid to say that to her. I didnt turn to the girl in line at the bar behind me and buy her a drink, that's a great way to waste your money.

PS, those guys don't look like douches, they look like adults. Thats what an adult wears, it odd that you would call them a douche simply because they know how to dress.

 

[Cyrus]

I know what you mean about people who wear Hollister. I just don't buy shirts with Hollister or any name plastered all over it.

That's why I really like Banana Republic. They don't have things plastered all over it saying it's from BR.

Yes, BR is GREAT. Listen hard everyone, BR is worth EVERY PENNY. The stuff lasts for years and looks great if you take care of it.

 

[p3t3r1]

Ah man. Glad to see I am not the only one in the same boat. You see, I am an asian guy too. I look very nerdy, probably ugly too (although I never overheard anyone calling me that, mainly cause I lived with my mom most of my life. I look like some monk if I am bald). I am only 18 and I already got white hairs. I wear very nerdy glasses. What's worse, my english is very accented. (Chinese accent, sucks. I have to speak slowly or no one understands. I been speak english every since I was 10 but little changed)

I wear whatever clean clothing I got. Usually T shirt or some baggy pants. I am not afraid of been nerdy. All the friends I made are because I am nerdy and work hard at things I do. I love helping people but my social life is horrible. I am in first year university. I don't live in dorm since I can't afford it. (Lol, I can't even afford my textbooks) I help people with online physics homework and stuff and a lot people know my name but few know face attached with that name. I don't think I am making any friends in helping people...

My friends only want help, none of them hangs out with my socially. (prolly because I embrass them too much) So it sucks. After a semester is finished, probably few remember me. I have diffculty speaking to people, especially strangers -girls.. so I never make any new friends. The friends I have right now are either by pure luck (they started talking to me) or high school mates.

I live by myself so I got to be very independent. I have to cook and take care of myself etc.. Life is pretty lonely sometimes. I spend a lot of my free time helping people with homework and stuff, hoping that I will make new friends or get a girlfriend. doesn't seem to work.

 

[Huckleberry]

6 pages+ in one day. That's crazy.

I'm like you Proton. However I reckon that one way to battle this problem is to really concentrate on your academics and aim for top. That way you might become more popular, boost your self-esteem and people will want to talk to you more. At least they might start asking you questions. Friends can be made that way. Someone like us will probably only have good friends that are also nerds.

Yes, people will start asking you questions, but their questions won't be directed at making friendship. If you are top of your class and someone asks you a question about class, it is most likely they just want their question answered correctly. This is a different intraction than someone that really wants to be your friend.

I don't see anything wrong about increasing self-esteem by performing well in one's studies, but I'm not sure how well that would translate into finding the courage to approach another person. Rather, I think focusing on studies would make one more confident in their studies, and focusing on social activities will make one more appreciated socially. I think the best way to overcome weaknesses in one area is to 'bite the bullet' and focus on the weak area. (not to the detriment of your studies) Being really good at physics isn't going to do much to make anyone a good friend to someone else.

The best way to make friends is to be friendly. Make a point to display the virtues that you would like to have in friends of your own. Be sensitive to the emotional state of people around you. If someone is having difficulty with a particular problem you can offer to help them before they ask. Taking the initiative removes the pressure from others to do so, and displays empathy. People are more inclined to be your friend if they feel you can sincerely appreciate them. This is one case where making people feel good is the right answer, just be sincere when you do it.

A simple smile can go a long way.

 

[Huckleberry]

Ah man. Glad to see I am not the only one in the same boat. You see, I am an asian guy too. I look very nerdy, probably ugly too (although I never overheard anyone calling me that, mainly cause I lived with my mom most of my life. I look like some monk if I am bald). I am only 18 and I already got white hairs. I wear very nerdy glasses. What's worse, my english is very accented. (Chinese accent, sucks. I have to speak slowly or no one understands. I been speak english every since I was 10 but little changed)

I wear whatever clean clothing I got. Usually T shirt or some baggy pants. I am not afraid of been nerdy. All the friends I made are because I am nerdy and work hard at things I do. I love helping people but my social life is horrible. I am in first year university. I don't live in dorm since I can't afford it. (Lol, I can't even afford my textbooks) I help people with online physics homework and stuff and a lot people know my name but few know face attached with that name. I don't think I am making any friends in helping people...

My friends only want help, none of them hangs out with my socially. (prolly because I embrass them too much) So it sucks. After a semester is finished, probably few remember me. I have diffculty speaking to people, especially strangers -girls.. so I never make any new friends. The friends I have right now are either by pure luck (they started talking to me) or high school mates.

I live by myself so I got to be very independent. I have to cook and take care of myself etc.. Life is pretty lonely sometimes. I spend a lot of my free time helping people with homework and stuff, hoping that I will make new friends or get a girlfriend. doesn't seem to work.

It sounds like people have a positive opinion of you. It may be that they just don't know how to approach you. If there is someone that you have helped with homework a few times try inviting them to your place, or some other setting outside of school, like a cafe or restaurant. If it helps to remove anxiety you can tell yourself that you are not going to treat them any differently than you would if you were in the study hall or library. The point is to feel comfortable with people in another setting.

Don't assume that people have specific opinions of you. Give them the benefit of the doubt. This is something I still find myself doing quite a bit. Yes, people do stereotype, but this is surprisingly easy to overcome if you give a person the opportunity to see you for who you are. You may consider yourself to be unnatractive in some way, but let others decide that for themselves. Don't let fear be the barrier that prevents success before you have even tried. Let people decide for themselves what they think of you. One positive gesture outweighs ten negative ones, and I think you might be surprised how people's opinions of you differ from your own.

Making friends aint about you. It's about making others feel appreciated. If they choose to reciprocate then you've found a friend.

 

[Moonbear]

The other thing is the taylor. You must beware of taylor's because not everything on a shirt can be made to fit you. If you're a small, and you buy a medium, it's not going to fit you. A taylor can not make a shirt one size smaller. A taylor can fix the arms, a little bit on the shoulders and the how the shirt snugs up to your body, but that's it. You can only get so much done. It's best to buy something as close you can to your body. If you can't get anywhere close, forget it. Also, avoid buying sizes one size bigger because it "will" shrink into your size. That's a load of ****. I buy the size that fits as close to perfect as I am in the store. I then wash my clothes the way it's suppose to be washed. Lots of my clothes don't even see the dryer.

I've met guys who simply have never been shown what a proper fitting shirt should look like on them, or who have lost or gained weight and it never occurred to them they should try a size up or down. That's half the problem. The seams at the shoulders should be AT the shoulders, not hanging down your arm. If it's a collared shirt, you should be able to button it up and not have it really loose or strangling you (so it'll look decent if you wear a tie with it). If you're buying dress shirts to wear with ties, go for the higher quality shirts that come with collar stays so the points of the collar don't keep curling up and looking unkempt...if you're dressing up that nicely, you want to look nice. If you don't know what a collar stay is, it's time to learn. Every guy should have a few well-fitting collared shirts in their wardrobe. If you really can't find any that fit reasonably well in the stores, it's worth considering having a few custom made...by the time you're done tailoring something that really badly fits from the store, you might as well pay for the custom-made shirt.

Another one is stay away from Wal-Mart and places that have cheap clothes. They're cheap because the material is cheap and the cut is ****. No taylor can fix that. I used buy cheap, but now I never ever buy cheap. I personally wear different styles to match the evening, the day, the season or mood or whatever. Places I go most often on Abercrombie and Fitch, Hollister, Banana Republic and other places. Being a thin european body type, cheap stores don't have proper clothing for me because they're made for the general public which is overweight people (even the small size).

Hmm...I consider Abercrombie, Hollister, and Banana Republic to be overpriced cheap clothes. I've walked into those stores and walked right back out after checking out a few items on the racks, and deciding it looked like stuff I could buy in a thrift store. Banana Republic used to have good quality clothing ages ago...stuff that would last long past its style expiration date...but it's gone downhill quite a bit.

But, yeah, if you want to put a little effort into looking nice, spend a little extra on just a few quality clothes so they'll keep looking nice after the first wash. If you buy them cheap, aside from them probably not even fitting right the first time, they'll look like rags by the time you've washed them once, which will defeat the entire purpose.

And, yes, guys, please, if you want to go on dates, you need to have more than jeans and t-shirts in your wardrobe. Your clothing should fit the occasion! Jeans and t-shirts are fine for going to classes and sitting around the dorm room studying, but when it's time to go out on a date, dress in well-fitting trousers (with a belt!) and a nice shirt. Women do think about what they're going to wear on dates quite a lot, and will try very hard to look especially nice, and it's really depressing when you put all that effort into choosing just the right clothing and getting your hair right, etc., and the guy shows up at the door in jeans and a t-shirt and you immediately feel mismatched.

 

[Cyrus]

The problem is that BR switched from their stuff being made in Italy to Turkey.

And, yes, guys, please, if you want to go on dates, you need to have more than jeans and t-shirts in your wardrobe. Your clothing should fit the occasion! Jeans and t-shirts are fine for going to classes and sitting around the dorm room studying, but when it's time to go out on a date, dress in well-fitting trousers (with a belt!) and a nice shirt. Women do think about what they're going to wear on dates quite a lot, and will try very hard to look especially nice, and it's really depressing when you put all that effort into choosing just the right clothing and getting your hair right, etc., and the guy shows up at the door in jeans and a t-shirt and you immediately feel mismatched.

How can you say this and say those guys look like 'dorks'? Are you kidding me! Those guys look nothing like dorks in terms of what they are wearing.

 

[Astronuc]

How can you say this and say those guys look like 'dorks'? Are you kidding me! Those guys look nothing like dorks in terms of what they are wearing.

Because 'dorkish' is in the eye of the beholder.