Why Does Tipler & Mosca Emphasize Mass Cancellation in Kinetic Friction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the emphasis placed by Tipler & Mosca on the cancellation of mass in the context of kinetic friction. Participants explore the implications of this emphasis, questioning its necessity and clarity, particularly in relation to the definition of the coefficient of kinetic friction.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the necessity of the authors' remark about mass cancellation, noting that the coefficient of kinetic friction, ##\mu_k##, is defined as independent of mass and dependent only on the materials in contact.
  • Others suggest that comments perceived as unnecessary may actually benefit readers who find certain concepts unclear, highlighting the diversity in reader comprehension.
  • One participant argues that the authors should have explicitly stated the basic reason for mass's irrelevance in the context of kinetic friction to avoid confusion among beginners.
  • Another participant counters that the remark about mass cancellation does not demonstrate that a mass-independent coefficient of friction is expected, suggesting that in practice, the coefficient may depend on mass.
  • Some participants note that preferences for textbook style and clarity vary, indicating that different authors will have different approaches to presenting material.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the necessity and clarity of the authors' remarks regarding mass cancellation in kinetic friction. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effectiveness of the authors' communication style and the implications of mass independence.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express concern that the authors' remarks may introduce confusion rather than clarity, particularly for beginners. There is also a suggestion that the practical implications of mass on the coefficient of friction are not adequately addressed.

walking
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On page 120 of Tipler & Mosca 5th edition there is a worked example involving calculating the coefficient of kinetic friction of a situation. The authors then basically remark on why the final answer doesn't depend on the mass and why the mass cancels, adding at the end that "the net result is that the mass has no effect".

I understand this remark, but what I am a bit puzzled about is why it was necessary. Isn't it already clear by definition that ##\mu_k## doesn't depend on the mass? It only depends on the materials of the objects. On page 118 of the same book when defining ##\mu_k## it says that it depends only on the nature of the surfaces in contact.

Maybe their remark contains a useful idea which I am not seeing? I have attached the relevant worked example + remark.
 

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walking said:
I understand this remark, but what I am a bit puzzled about is why it was necessary. Isn't it already clear ...
I know that when I wrote a textbook I often included comments about things that were already clear. It turns out that things that are already clear for some readers are not clear to others, so such unnecessary comments can be highly beneficial.
 
Dale said:
I know that when I wrote a textbook I often included comments about things that were already clear. It turns out that things that are already clear for some readers are not clear to others, so such unnecessary comments can be highly beneficial.
The reason I would prefer such remarks not to be included is because the authors did not refer at all to the basic reason of why mass is not relevant: because the coefficient of kinetic friction only depends on the nature of the surfaces. In my opinion, not adding this to the remark makes the remark confusing and multiplies notions within the beginner's mind, rather than clarifying things. The beginner ends up thinking there are many things at play when in fact they are all simply a result of a much more basic reason. That is just my opinion though because personally I don't like having to repeatedly take lots of things that look different and reduce them in my mind to one thing. I would prefer if the authors did that and I could just read the book without having to use my brain power to keep spotting equivalences.
 
walking said:
I could just read the book without having to use my brain power

This is unlikely to be an effective strategy to learn physics.
 
walking said:
The reason I would prefer such remarks not to be included is because the authors did not refer at all to the basic reason of why mass is not relevant: because the coefficient of kinetic friction only depends on the nature of the surfaces. In my opinion, not adding this to the remark makes the remark confusing and multiplies notions within the beginner's mind, rather than clarifying things. The beginner ends up thinking there are many things at play when in fact they are all simply a result of a much more basic reason. That is just my opinion though because personally I don't like having to repeatedly take lots of things that look different and reduce them in my mind to one thing. I would prefer if the authors did that and I could just read the book without having to use my brain power to keep spotting equivalences.

I agree in the sense that the definition of coefficient of kinetic friction assumes it is independent of the mass. In practice, that may be true or it may not. That page does not in any way demonstrate that a mass-independent coefficient of friction is to be expected. In fact, the more you think about it the more likely it seems that the coefficient of friction would depend on the mass.
 
walking said:
The reason I would prefer such remarks not to be included is ...
Your complaint here is simply a matter of style and personal preference. Every author will have a different style. If you don’t like this one then pick a different textbook or write your own with a style you prefer.
 
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