Why is static friction not considered in the work-energy theorem?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of static friction in the context of the work-energy theorem and conservation of energy. Participants are exploring why the work done against static friction is not included in energy conservation equations, particularly in scenarios involving pure rolling motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the nature of static friction and its impact on work done in rolling motion. Some are clarifying that static friction does not perform work due to the lack of relative motion at the point of contact.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants confirming and elaborating on the idea that static friction does not do work in certain contexts. There are multiple perspectives being explored regarding the definition of work and the implications of static friction in different scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Some participants are considering specific cases, such as a block resting on an accelerating surface, to illustrate the nuances of how static friction might be perceived to do work from different frames of reference.

phantomvommand
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Homework Statement
A ball rolls down a sphere (without slipping). At what height will the ball lose contact with the sphere?
Ball radius = r, sphere radius = R, ball mass = m, ball I = 2/5mr^2
Relevant Equations
Conservation of energy:
mg(R+r)(1-cos theta) = 1/2mv^2 + 1/2 I w^2.
My question is this:
- Friction exists (for no slipping/pure rolling to occur)
- Why is the work done against friction not accounted for in the conservation of energy equation?

Thank you!
 
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phantomvommand said:
My question is this:
- Friction exists (for no slipping/pure rolling to occur)
- Why is the work done against friction not accounted for in the conservation of energy equation?
For no slipping, you have static friction, which does no work.
 
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PeroK said:
For no slipping, you have static friction, which does no work.
Just to confirm, you mean that it does no work as the point of contact is not moving (ie Fdx = 0, as dx = 0?)
 
phantomvommand said:
Just to confirm, you mean that it does no work as the point of contact is not moving (ie Fdx = 0, as dx = 0?)
Yes, that's why rolling is so efficient. And why you don't lose rubber off your car tyres when drving normally.
 
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phantomvommand said:
Just to confirm, you mean that it does no work as the point of contact is not moving (ie Fdx = 0, as dx = 0?)
It depends how you are defining dx. If as the relative motion of the surfaces then yes, dx=0.
But consider a block resting on an accelerating block, no sliding.
As far as the top block is concerned friction is doing work on it. If that block advances distance x then the work done is Ffx. The lower block takes the opposite view, i.e. the work done by the friction is -Ffx.
In short, no net work is done by static friction.
 
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