Why isn't the Cotton tensor identical zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of the Cotton tensor and its relationship with the Weyl tensor, particularly questioning why the Cotton tensor is not identically zero. The conversation involves theoretical aspects of differential geometry and tensor calculus, with references to the Bianchi identities and the dimensionality of space.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Cotton tensor must be identically zero due to the tracelessness of the Weyl tensor and the application of the second Bianchi identity.
  • Others argue that the conclusion that the Cotton tensor vanishes is incorrect, particularly when considering different dimensions of space (n=3 versus n≥4).
  • A participant points out a potential flaw in the reasoning regarding the properties of the Weyl tensor and its relationship to the Bianchi identity.
  • It is suggested that the Cotton tensor does not vanish in general for n=3, and that it is not defined for dimensions less than 3.
  • Some participants clarify that for n≥4, if the Weyl tensor vanishes, then the Cotton tensor also vanishes.
  • There is a recognition of mistakes made in earlier claims regarding the governing properties of the Weyl tensor and the implications for the Cotton tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the conditions under which the Cotton tensor is zero or non-zero, with multiple competing views on the implications of dimensionality and the properties of the Weyl tensor. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to challenge and refine their arguments.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the properties of the Cotton tensor are dependent on the dimensionality of space, and there are unresolved issues regarding the application of the Bianchi identities to the Weyl tensor.

archipatelin
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Cotton tensor [tex]C_{\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex] is define as:
[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}=-\frac{n-3}{n-2}C_{\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex]​
where [tex]W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex] is Weyl tensor and [tex]n[/tex] is dimension of space.

Weyl tensor obey II. Bianchi identity (and all symetries of Rieamann tensor):
[tex]\nabla_{\nu}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda} + \nabla_{\varkappa}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\lambda\nu}+\nabla_{\lambda}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\nu\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
and extra it is traceless:
[tex]W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
For a divergence of Weyl tensor can write:
[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}=g^{\rho\sigma}\nabla_{\sigma}W_{\rho\mu\varkappa\lambda}=\left<\mbox{II. Bianchi identity}\right>=-g^{\rho\sigma}\left(\nabla_{\varkappa}W_{\rho\mu\lambda\sigma}+\nabla_{\lambda}W_{\rho\mu\sigma\varkappa}\right)=[/tex]
[tex]=\nabla_{\varkappa}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\lambda}-\nabla_{\lambda}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
Becose Weyl tensor is traceless therefor Cotton tensor must be identical zero!
Is this correct?
 
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archipatelin said:
Cotton tensor [tex]C_{\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex] is define as:
[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}=-\frac{n-3}{n-2}C_{\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex]​
where [tex]W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex] is Weyl tensor and [tex]n[/tex] is dimension of space.

Weyl tensor obey II. Bianchi identity (and all symetries of Rieamann tensor):
[tex]\nabla_{\nu}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda} + \nabla_{\varkappa}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\lambda\nu}+\nabla_{\lambda}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\nu\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
and extra it is traceless:
[tex]W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
For a divergence of Weyl tensor can write:
[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa\lambda}=g^{\rho\sigma}\nabla_{\sigma}W_{\rho\mu\varkappa\lambda}=\left<\mbox{II. Bianchi identity}\right>=-g^{\rho\sigma}\left(\nabla_{\varkappa}W_{\rho\mu\lambda\sigma}+\nabla_{\lambda}W_{\rho\mu\sigma\varkappa}\right)=[/tex]
[tex]=\nabla_{\varkappa}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\lambda}-\nabla_{\lambda}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\sigma\varkappa}=0[/tex]​
Becose Weyl tensor is traceless therefor Cotton tensor must be identical zero!
Is this correct?

Let's do clean the equations a little bit and see what's wrong:

From the second Bianchi Identity we have

[tex]\nabla_{\nu}W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa \lambda}+\nabla_{\varkappa }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \lambda \nu}+\nabla_{\lambda }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \nu\varkappa}=0[/tex]

Contracting [tex]\nu[/tex] with [tex]\sigma[/tex] gives

[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa \lambda}+\nabla_{\varkappa }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \lambda \sigma}+\nabla_{\lambda }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \sigma\varkappa}=0\Rightarrow[/tex]

[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa \lambda}+\nabla_{\varkappa }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \lambda \sigma}-\nabla_{\lambda }W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa\sigma}=0\Rightarrow[/tex]

[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa \lambda}+g^{\rho \sigma}\nabla_{\varkappa }W_{\rho \mu \lambda \sigma}-g^{\rho \sigma}\nabla_{\lambda }W_{\rho \mu \varkappa\sigma}=0.[/tex] (1)

Now I think by the property of tracelessness of Weyl tensor, or,

[tex]g^{\rho \sigma}W_{\rho \mu \varkappa\sigma}=0,[/tex]

you conclude from (1)

[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\mu \varkappa \lambda}=0.[/tex]

So you put this into the equation

[tex]\nabla_{\sigma}W^{\sigma}_{\phantom{M}\mu\varkappa \lambda}=\frac{n-3}{n-2}C_{\mu\varkappa\lambda}[/tex]

and finally claim that the Cotton tensor vanishes. But unfortunately you did make a big mistake. I let you think about where this flaw arises in the above calculations! You can have a look at the fact that in a geodesic coordinates, for example, the second derivatives of metric tensors wrt coordinates do not vanish whereas their first derevatives do.

AB
 
Altabeh said:
But unfortunately you did make a big mistake.
If do you think case when [tex]n=3[/tex]. Yes, I did a big mistake. But I suppose [tex]n\geq4[/tex].
Or Cotton tensor exist only for [tex]n=3[/tex] space (for [tex]n=2[/tex] it is also zero)?
 
archipatelin said:
If do you think case when [tex]n=3[/tex]. Yes, I did a big mistake. But I suppose [tex]n\geq4[/tex].
Or Cotton tensor exist only for [tex]n=3[/tex] space (for [tex]n=2[/tex] it is also zero)?

For n=3, the Cotton tensor does not vanish in general. But for [tex]n\geq4[/tex], if the weyl tensor vanishes, then the Cotton tensor always vanishes. For n less than 3 the Cotton tensor is not defined.

AB
 
Altabeh said:
For n=3, the Cotton tensor does not vanish in general. But for [tex]n\geq4[/tex], if the weyl tensor vanishes, then the Cotton tensor always vanishes. For n less than 3 the Cotton tensor is not defined.

AB

This is correct, because I made another big mistake. Weyl tensor isn't governed of analog II. Bianchi identity. Therefore cotton tensor is non-zero generaly for [tex]n>2[/tex].
 
Last edited:
archipatelin said:
This is correct, because I made another big mistake. Weyl tensor isn't governed of analog II. Bianchi identity. Therefore cotton tensor is non-zero generaly for [tex]n>2[/tex].

Seconded.
 

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