Why ultimate load is less than yield load?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of loads in a fixed-fixed beam subjected to a central load, specifically focusing on the ultimate load, yield load, and the conditions under which yielding and plastic hinges occur. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of beam mechanics, including material properties and analysis methods.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the ultimate load for a fixed-fixed beam as 440 kN using the formula 8Mp/L and seeks to determine the yield load.
  • Another participant requests additional information, such as the beam length, to clarify the initial calculations and stresses involved.
  • A participant provides the dimensions of the beam and explains their use of the von Mises model for non-linear analysis, indicating a need to calculate the load at which yielding occurs.
  • It is suggested that the load at yield can be found by determining the bending stress at the outer fibers of the beam when it reaches the yield stress of the material.
  • One participant reports calculating the load at yield as 293.3 kN and notes a discrepancy with software analysis, which shows a maximum load of 306 kN, questioning why it does not reach the ultimate load of 440 kN.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and results, particularly regarding the yield load and the behavior of the beam under non-linear analysis. No consensus is reached on the reasons for the discrepancies in the software results compared to theoretical expectations.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific beam cross-section details and the implications of shear stresses in their calculations. The discussion highlights the complexity of determining yield and ultimate loads, especially in non-linear analysis scenarios.

FK123
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i have made a beam with both ends fixed. when I apply load at center then the ultimate load will be 8Mp/L=8fyz/L which came to be 440KN

My question is how to calculate the load at which beam starts yielding?

I have used E=200000N/mm2 and initial yield strength=220N/mm2
 
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FK123 said:
i have made a beam with both ends fixed. when I apply load at center then the ultimate load will be 8Mp/L=8fyz/L which came to be 440KN

My question is how to calculate the load at which beam starts yielding?

I have used E=200000N/mm2 and initial yield strength=220N/mm2
We'll need a lot more information than you've given us to figure out what you've done.

First, tell us the length of the beam.

Second, tell us what you mean when you write "8Mp/L=8fyz/L". About all I can guess is that L = length of the beam. Everything else, who knows?

For a fixed-fixed beam with a central load P, the max. bending moment is MMAX = PL / 8, which occurs at the ends of the beam and in the center.

beam.h48.jpg
beam.h47.gif


While the bending stress remains below the yield stress, then the bending stress σ is calculated by

σ = M y / I,

where M = bending moment,
y = distance from the neutral axis of the beam
I = second moment of area of the beam cross section.

shear stress τ is calculated by

τ = VQ / (I * t)

where V = shear force,
I = second moment of area of the beam cross section (same value used above)
Q = first moment of area
t = span of the cross section in way of the shear stress location.

As you can see, you need to know something about the beam cross section in order to calculate the stresses created when the beam is loaded.

Because of the nature in which a fixed-fixed beam is supported, there will be additional shear stresses created at the locations where the maximum bending moment occurs, so these shear stresses must be calculated and combined with the bending stress to give the proper stress value at those locations, so that one can determine the load at which yielding of the material in the beam occurs.

Once the stress in the outer fibers of beam exceeds the yield stress of the material, the formula above no longer applies and a plastic analysis must be performed.
 
Thankyou
Length of beam=1000mm Width of beam=100mm height of beam=100mm
Ultimate load = 8* Plastic Moment/ length
where Plastic moment = Yield stress * plastic section modulus

I was supposed to do non linear analysis of beam. so i have used the von mises model to define the beam material property. where E=200000N/mm2 and initial yield strength=220N/mm2 and poison ratio=0.28
my professor told me to calculate manually the load at which plastic hinge will be created and the load at which material starts yielding. Therefore i have used Ultimate load = 8* Plastic Moment/ length to calculate load at which plastic hinge created.

But i didnt know how to calculate load at yield?
 
FK123 said:
Thankyou
Length of beam=1000mm Width of beam=100mm height of beam=100mm
Ultimate load = 8* Plastic Moment/ length
where Plastic moment = Yield stress * plastic section modulus

I was supposed to do non linear analysis of beam. so i have used the von mises model to define the beam material property. where E=200000N/mm2 and initial yield strength=220N/mm2 and poison ratio=0.28
my professor told me to calculate manually the load at which plastic hinge will be created and the load at which material starts yielding. Therefore i have used Ultimate load = 8* Plastic Moment/ length to calculate load at which plastic hinge created.

But i didnt know how to calculate load at yield?
Finding the load at yield is simple. When the beam bends elastically, the outer fibers see the highest bending stresses. Find the load P such that the bending stress in the outer fiber of the beam reaches the yield stress of the material.

Assuming that the cross section of this beam is rectangular, the maximum bending stress at the outer fibers will be

σ = M y / I = 220 N/mm2, where y = depth of the beam / 2 and I = bh3/12. Solve for M, which is also M = P*L/8.
 
thankyou
 
I have calculated the load at plastic hinge i.e 440KN
and the load at yield is 293.3KN

when i do nonlinear analysis it shows the maximum load of 306KN. why does not the software runs till 440KN since 440 is ultimate load where plastic hinge will be created? the graph below shows the maximum load 306KK. the graph is between load and displacement
upload_2015-7-7_13-55-8.png
 

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