Why were Buckyballs banned by the government?

[jtbell]

When I saw the headlines, my first thought was, "what have they got against C60?"

Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product (USA Today)

Turns out these buckyballs are a magnetic toy.

 

[Monique]

People are swallowing the magnets, thus the product is defective.. interesting take on it.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

People are swallowing the magnets, thus the product is defective.. interesting take on it.

Not only that but the product is not marketed as a childrens toy. So it's more like "children are swallowing parts of a product that they shouldn't have and thus the product is defective".

 

[daveb]

It's a great advertising gimmick the CPSC has come up with. I hadn't heard of these and just bought 2 sets.

 

[Danger]

This is even stupider than that cow who sued McDonald's because she couldn't figure out how to drink coffee.

 

[edward]

which requires that such powerful magnets are not sold for children under 14[/b]

http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/07/buckyballs-banned/

There are a number of competitors that were not mentioned in the OP. nanodots, neocube, zen magnets, and cybercube.



Any chocking hazards, including; marshmallows, balloons and hot dogs are much more likely to be fatal.

 

[Danger]

Any chocking hazards, including; marshmallows, balloons and hot dogs are much more likely to be fatal.

Especially hotdogs.
At least the other two things that you named are edible.

 

[arildno]

Here in Norway, we just passed a resolution banning polar bears and old firs, due to the hazards they represent to 2-year olds.

 

[Charmar]

I miss natural selection...

 

[Danger]

I miss natural selection...

And apparently it missed you.

Arildno, old bean... are you honestly telling us that Norweedish children don't have pet polar bears? That's tremendously disillusioning.

 

[arildno]

And apparently it missed you.

Arildno, old bean... are you honestly telling us that Norweedish children don't have pet polar bears? That's tremendously disillusioning.

In that age, we let them play with greater and lesser weevers.

 

[Danger]

In that age, we let them play with greater and lesser weevers.

Surprising. I'd have thought that it's pretty difficult to take one for a walk.

 

[DaveC426913]

You know, I thought this was silly too, when I read it. But then I saw it on the news. It's not just a theoretical danger. A 4 year old child got a perforated intestine requiring emergency surgery to remove most of his small intestine because he's swallowed just 3 of these.

In another case a 3 year old went to the hospital after ripping three holes in her lower intestine and one hole in her stomach.

The problem is, unlike automobiles, polar bears and household cleaning supplies, these things are toys. How do you keep kids away from them?

BTW, it's not just toddlers. Teenagers are having this happen too. They wear them like piercings and accidentally swallow them. That may be somewhat foolish, but I wouldn't normally qualify that as idiotic. It's not idiotic to swallow a nickel. Happens all the time. Doctors orders: wait a couple of days and maybe take a laxative.

You're probably saying "well, stupid people will get themselves hurt, why do the rest of us have to suffer?" Thing is, these things are a type of danger that is outside our normal experience. Magnetism has never been a dangerous phenomenon in normal experience. It is not necessarily reasonable for the average person to think that an innocuous metal ball or two could kill them.

 

[AlephZero]

You know, I thought this was silly too, when I read it. But then I saw it on the news. It's not just a theoretical danger. A 4 year old child got a perforated intestine requiring emergency surgery to remove most of his small intestine because he's swallowed just 3 of these.

They are also a hazard to pets: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-17688011

 

[DaveC426913]

They are also a hazard to pets: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-17688011

"We found the hamster in mid air and stuck to the bars..."

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

With all these bans in place, soon we won't be able to eat anything.

 

[arildno]

With all these bans in place, soon we won't be able to eat anything.

There's still you.

 

[Curious3141]

People are swallowing the magnets, thus the product is defective.. interesting take on it.

The politicians can't ban defective people, otherwise who else would vote for them? So they ban "defective" products instead.

 

[DaveC426913]

The politicians can't ban defective people,

I hear ya, but I still insist, a product is a legitimate danger to the public if:

- it can send you to the hospital with life-threatening injuries
and
- it is otherwise a reasonably innocuous thing, not known by most people to have such a risk associated with it
and yet
- is a toy.

 

[nonmendelian]

If you swallow 2 bucky balls and they later pinch 2 intestines together that could be quite painful and require an operation to remove. Just saying.

 

[Danger]

- is a toy.

That's the 2nd time that you've said that, Dave. Where did you miss the part about it being a desk toy? How many toddler's work in an office? Do you want to ban Newton's cradle as well? Or USB missile launchers? These things aren't made for kids and were never advertised as such.
The kids involved in the lawsuit are the same ones who eat dirt and cram beans up their noses. That idiot who needed to have her guts rebuilt is 14 years old! Were you or I stupid enough to eat magnets at that age? If we had, we wouldn't be our age now.

 

[Curious3141]

With all these bans in place, soon we won't be able to eat anything.

Oh, stop fretting, it's not like they're going to outlaw batteries anytime soon.

 

[OmCheeto]

I would buy some Buckyball cubes, but am concerned that they might not be as powerful as commercial grade magnets. Does anyone know what grade they are? I googled for at least two hours and couldn't find anything. I also tried Zen Magnets, their apparent arch nemesis. No luck.

I mean, my god, this is an old scientists dream!

https://www.getbuckyballs.com/images/cart/buckycubes/product-image.png?v=205

Super magnets! I see flying cars, boats, bicycles, and skateboards when I think of such things.

ps. My sister facebook posted a recall on dog food because of a choking hazard about a month ago. I asked her if we should ban chickens, because cats and dogs can choke to death on chicken bones. She said; "yes..."

 

[Danger]

My sister facebook posted a recall on dog food because of a choking hazard about a month ago. I asked her if we should ban chickens, because cats and dogs can choke to death on chicken bones. She said; "yes..."

Look on the bright side—if she had received her rightful share of the family brains, instead of it all going to you, you might not be here with us today.

 

[OmCheeto]

Look on the bright side—if she had received her rightful share of the family brains, instead of it all going to you, you might not be here with us today.

Actually, I'm quite certain she's the smartest of the bunch. I think she just loves her dog so much, that when she saw my smartasterisked remark to her public service announcement, it made her, just a bit one-uppitier with wise cracks.

Not to mention that I should get on her good side, lest she be a troll here at the forum, as she's coming to visit in about a week, along with a hoard of other siblings and what-nots.

 

[Danger]

Actually, I'm quite certain she's the smartest of the bunch.

I doubt that. To start with, she's on Facebook. That alone is a serious sign of stupidity. And her response to your suggestion about other things to ban is just confirmation.

By the bye, are "whatnots" sibling offshoots, or members of the band fronted by Cecil the Seasick Seaserpent "So What and the 7 Whatnots"? If the latter, can you get me an autograph? They've been my favourite band ever since I heard them do "Ragg Mopp" back in '63.

 

[DaveC426913]

That's the 2nd time that you've said that, Dave. Where did you miss the part about it being a desk toy? How many toddler's work in an office? Do you want to ban Newton's cradle as well? Or USB missile launchers? These things aren't made for kids and were never advertised as such.

Does categorizing them mean they don't get played with anywhere else or by anyone else? All the buckyball sets I've have never been near a desk. They're a toy, handleable by anyone.

Newton's cradle is no more dangerous than any set of metal balls of that size.
USB missile launchers are dangerous - and thus to be handled - in a clearly obvious way.

The kids involved in the lawsuit are the same ones who eat dirt and cram beans up their noses.

Yes., Regular kids. Who eat dirt and cram beans up their nose - and don't end up in the hospital with life-threatening injuries because of it.

That idiot who needed to have her guts rebuilt is 14 years old!

Why does that make her an idiot? Is everyone who swallows a nickel an idiot?

Were you or I stupid enough to eat magnets at that age?

Yes.

If we had, we wouldn't be our age now.

Yes we would. Normal magnets are not dangerous.

 

[Danger]

You're talking in circles, Dave. On one hand you're saying that desk toys (Buckyballs) are commonly found in the hands of children rather than on desks, and on the other saying that they (missiles) are fine but have to be supervised. As for Newton's cradle, the balls are easily removable and swallowable. As far as that goes, the little idiots could tie the strings together and hang themselves.
Yes, everyone who swallows a nickel is an idiot, if it's done at the age of 14. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I assumed that you were too smart to have done such a thing. I certainly was. I didn't eat bullets, either, and I was fully conversant with firearms at that age. (My preacher father bought me my first .22 semi-auto pistol when I was 15, but I'd been using them much longer.)
I don't know what you mean by "normal" magnets. I regularly played with cow magnets as a very young child (<6). You can pick up a Buick with one of those things, and it never crossed my mind to swallow one.

 

[DaveC426913]

You're talking in circles, Dave. On one hand you're saying that desk toys (Buckyballs) are commonly found in the hands of children rather than on desks, and on the other saying that they (missiles) are fine but have to be supervised.

I didn't say they had to be supervised.

Let me put it another way: It is obvious how missiles could be harmful. The problem with neodymium magnets is that it is not at all obvious that they're dangerous or how dangerous they are.

As for Newton's cradle, the balls are easily removable and swallowable. As far as that goes, the little idiots could tie the strings together and hang themselves.

Neodymium magnets are a danger in disproportion to how harmful they seem.

Yes, everyone who swallows a nickel is an idiot, if it's done at the age of 14.

No, they're merely foolish. It's not all that harmful.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I assumed that you were too smart to have done such a thing. I certainly was.

There is very little danger posed in swallowing normal magnets. Again, swallowing them may be foolish, but it's not idiotic.

I didn't eat bullets, either, and I was fully conversant with firearms at that age.

Precisely. Clear risk tends to lead to proper respect.

I don't know what you mean by "normal" magnets. I regularly played with cow magnets as a very young child (<6). You can pick up a Buick with one of those things, and it never crossed my mind to swallow one.

And are cow magnets smaller than a baby aspirin?
To my eye, they look to be a solid metal bar the size of a fat crayon. Could you have swallowed one? If you were tempted to swallow something of that size, that would be seen by most reasonable people (even young ones) as posing a serious risk.

Again. Danger in disproportion to their seeming danger.

 

[OmCheeto]

I doubt that. To start with, she's on Facebook. That alone is a serious sign of stupidity.

You may have time to delete your post.


A healthy 16% of my facebook friends are from PF.

You really should get on and at least make friends with the boss. His trip to the North Pole was freakin' KILLER!(a. nuclear powered russian icebreaker. b. walruses. c. polar bears. d. Admiral Kuznetsov! e. some hoard of birds on an iceberg. f. another cool iceberg. g. boss sitting on a bear rug. h. boss holding the north pole, um, pole, sign, thingy... whatever...)

And her response to your suggestion about other things to ban is just confirmation.

By the bye, are "whatnots" sibling offshoots, or members of the band fronted by Cecil the Seasick Seaserpent "So What and the 7 Whatnots"? If the latter, can you get me an autograph? They've been my favourite band ever since I heard them do "Ragg Mopp" back in '63.

what·not/ˈ(h)wətˌnät/
Noun:
1. Used to refer to an item or items that are not identified but are felt to have something in common with items already named.

ie nieces, nephews, grand nieces, grand nephews. I promise to bring along no industrial grade magnets, nor chicken bones, nor gag-able kibbley bits, for our bi-annual family get together.

 

[Danger]

And are cow magnets smaller than a baby aspirin?
To my eye, they look to be a solid metal bar the size of a fat crayon. Could you have swallowed one?

They were quite expensive, so I was allowed to play only with broken ones. Some were about the size of a peanut.
There might be a matter of definition involved here. I do not see any difference between "foolish" and "idiotic" and "moronic" and several other terms that all indicate the bottom of the gene pool (unless you get into technical psychiatric conversations).
The bottom line to me is... if it's obviously not edible, how stupid do you have to be to swallow it? I know a girl who choked half to death on a condom once, but that was bad luck and bad fit as opposed to outright stupidity.

Om... all that I can say is that I wouldn't be caught dead on that site, and if you check the numbers you'll see that their members are leaving like rats from a sinking ship once they tune into what's going on.

 

[dlgoff]

I would buy some Buckyball cubes, but ...

I mean, my god, this is an old scientists dream!

https://www.getbuckyballs.com/images/cart/buckycubes/product-image.png?v=205

Super magnets! I see flying cars, boats, bicycles, and skateboards when I think of such things.

This is the reason they should be banned. Maybe we can work this thread into this one.

 

[DaveC426913]

They were quite expensive, so I was allowed to play only with broken ones. Some were about the size of a peanut.

So we're down to you being the examplar, and the rest of the world not being as experienced as you. I'd say that's a pretty weak stance.

There might be a matter of definition involved here. I do not see any difference between "foolish" and "idiotic" and "moronic" and several other terms that all indicate the bottom of the gene pool (unless you get into technical psychiatric conversations).
The bottom line to me is... if it's obvious not edible, how stupid do you have to be to swallow it?

OK, so it seems you've categorized anyone (deliberately or accidentally) swallowing anything inedible (including kids as young as 3) as "bottom of the gene pool".

OK, but that's about 95% of the bottom of the gene pool.

Whether or not you need it, I would say that constitutes a justifiable reason for enacting regulations to protect that 95% of the population.

 

[Danger]

it seems you've categorized anyone (deliberately or accidentally) swallowing anything inedible (including kids as young as 3) as "bottom of the gene pool".

You have once again sidestepped the fact that these things are not intended for children and it's a parents' duty to decide whether or not a given child is smart enough to not eat one.

 

[OmCheeto]

This is the reason they should be banned. Maybe we can work this thread into this one.

No! I'm serious! Check out the prototype in my back yard:

All those fan wheel thingys won't work without lots and lots of super magnets!

And trust me, I've not done the math to make sure any of this will work. So I know it will work.

 

[turbo]

With all these bans in place, soon we won't be able to eat anything.

Well, a ban on Brussles sprouts couldn't be all that bad...

 

[Danger]

All those fan wheel thingys won't work without lots and lots of super magnets!

You underestimate me, Sir. I guarantee that I can spool those suckers up to 30,000 rpm or better with a couple of ripe beer farts. If that happens to fail, I can drag the ex-from-hell out of retirement. She could suck-start at 747, so I don't think that your little toy would be much of a challenge.

 

[OmCheeto]

You underestimate me, Sir. I guarantee that I can spool those suckers up to 30,000 rpm or better with a couple of ripe beer farts.

Deja vu of my first days at PF.
(Wollie started the thread on 12-7-07, I joined PF on 12-8-07)

..suck-start a 747...

Not sure how or when I'll be able to add that phrase to my lexicon, but I'm sure I'll manage. Thank you, Sir!

 

[Skrew]

So instead of individual responsibility it's up to the government to prevent people from buying magnets because there is a chance some children will swallow them?

 

[OmCheeto]

So instead of individual responsibility it's up to the government to prevent people from buying magnets because there is a chance some children will swallow them?

Actually, I think this whole thread is an Obama conspiracy to institute gun control laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7CyPtF0ChA

Gaussian Guns! Run for your lives!

No! It's our second amendment right to own Gaussian guns!

Dear oh dear oh dear... 100 days... Evo called it.

 

[Nano-Passion]

The parents should be blamed, not the object itself. There is a myriad of things that can hurt young kids, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[DaveC426913]

The parents should be blamed, not the object itself. There is a myriad of things that can hurt young kids, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen.

The point I have been trying to make is that people do not realize how dangerous they can be. The implications of a material as strongly magnetic as Neodymium (namely that, if mishandled, can lead to life-threatening injuries) is simply beyond most peoples' experience.

Practically everyone in the modern world has some familiarity with regular magnets and they are categorically innocuous, which is why these ones catch them unawares.

 

[Nano-Passion]

The point I have been trying to make is that people do not realize how dangerous they can be. The implications of a material as strongly magnetic as Neodymium (namely that, if mishandled, can lead to life-threatening injuries) is simply beyond most peoples' experience.

Practically everyone in the modern world has some familiarity with regular magnets and they are categorically innocuous, which is why these ones catch them unawares.

This is a huge philosophical question in itself that has been going on for a very long time. What criteria decides that an item should be banned or regulated? It seems that the criteria you state is that not only is it more dangerous than a few of the other items, but its danger is also underestimated to the unsuspecting.

Tough subject to argue about really, it is too subjective in my opinion. Though something tells me that there are a lot more objects that also possesses the same danger. So why this one? Don't you hear about all of the other accidents that happen to other children?

Read this to get a perspective about the product.

Craig Zucker, co-founder and CEO of Maxfield & Oberton says that Buckyballs were never marketed to kids. “Toys ‘R’ Us has been asking for our product for years, but we don’t [sell it there],” he says.

This is why we can’t have nice things. People keep swallowing them.

it markets the toy as a novelty product for adults—and includes several warning labels explaining that the product is dangerous if swallowed and not intended for children under age 14

Source http://www.businessweek.com/article...ecall-buckyballs-are-dangerous-when-swallowed

 

[DaveC426913]

it markets the toy as a novelty product for adults—and includes several warning labels explaining that the product is dangerous if swallowed and not intended for children under age 14

I would point out that only the packaging has that label. Once out of the packaging their innocuity belies their danger.

Pills are dangerous too, which is why we now know to keep them in their bottles - with labels.

 

[Nano-Passion]

I would point out that only the packaging has that label. Once out of the packaging their innocuity belies their danger.

Pills are dangerous too, which is why we now know to keep them in their bottles - with labels.

Things take time. It takes a lot of media exposure to get people to understand not to drink X red bulls in a given time or X aspirins in a given time. But it happens, and no bans have been issued for these cases -- even though they lead to death.

 

[Danger]

Good grief, Dave! What is your problem with this item? Did your kid eat one or something? By your logic, we have to ban every substance on the planet that isn't certified as food. Let's make glue illegal; the little idiots might clog their noses shut and suffocate. No more pop cans either; they'll stick their fingers in the holes and get cut. Perish forbid what mayhem might result if they get their incompetent little fingers on a set of golf clubs; got to put those in the gun safe with your rifles. Don't forget to lock the tees and balls up separately, since the clubs aren't nearly as deadly without them.

 

[Nano-Passion]

Good grief, Dave! What is your problem with this item? Did your kid eat one or something? By your logic, we have to ban every substance on the planet that isn't certified as food. Let's make glue illegal; the little idiots might clog their noses shut and suffocate. No more pop cans either; they'll stick their fingers in the holes and get cut. Perish forbid what mayhem might result if they get their incompetent little fingers on a set of golf clubs; got to put those in the gun safe with your rifles. Don't forget to lock the tees and balls up separately, since the clubs aren't nearly as deadly without them.

Dave's argument was that these objects appear to be relatively safe due to experience. He has a point.

But all dangerous things go through that phase, and it takes time for it to catch onto the general public that it is dangerous.

 

[Danger]

Dave's argument was that these objects appear to be relatively safe due to experience. He has a point.

And he has made it abundantly clear. My point is that no competent parent will give anything swallowable to a kid who is stupid enough to swallow it. If they do, they have no right to blame anyone else for the results. That's why 2-year-olds don't get Teddy bears whose eyes can be pulled off and eaten. Guess what a Lego brick can do to a kid's guts. I don't see them being outlawed.

 

[DaveC426913]

Good grief, Dave! What is your problem with this item?

I don't really. What I have a problem with is people assuming that they've got the market cornered on what constitutes intelligent behaviour and what constitutes common sense. Common sense is highly experience-based.

It's one thing to say this is an overreaction; it's another to say "anyone who doesn't see this the way I do is an idiot".

Did your kid eat one or something? By your logic, we have to ban every substance on the planet that isn't certified as food. Let's make glue illegal; the little idiots might clog their noses shut and suffocate. No more pop cans either; they'll stick their fingers in the holes and get cut. Perish forbid what mayhem might result if they get their incompetent little fingers on a set of golf clubs; got to put those in the gun safe with your rifles. Don't forget to lock the tees and balls up separately, since the clubs aren't nearly as deadly without them.

All red herrings and straw men. We are talking about this item, and this item has put many people in the hospital with life-threatening injuries. That's undeniable, no matter how many reducto arguments you put forth.

Yes - if cutting their fingers on pop cans and requiring hospitalization with life threatening injuries were starting to become common - you can bet your granny's girdle they'd be pulling the product and replacing it with something safer.

As for the other ones, (golf clubs, rifles), clearly you are not reading anything I've been saying about devices whose danger is readily apparent.

Too many people think they know too much about how the world works, and how it should work for them.

 

[Evo]

My kids never put things in their mouths that weren't supposed to go there. I kept things out of the way that could be a danger, and my kids weren't stupid swallowers. Don't know any nice way to put it.

If your kids try to swallow anything they can get into their mouths, keep that stuff out of your house, or muzzle them. They're your kids, take responsibility.

"Oh my GOD, someone made something my kid could swallow! It shouldn't be for sale if my kid can swallow it! I shouldn't have to think about if it's something I should buy! You need to guess that I have small children that swallow anything they get their hands on, and I don't pay attention, and not manufacture it!"