News Will Israel's Strikes Escalate to Full-Scale War?

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The discussion centers on escalating tensions between Israel and Hezbollah following the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, with concerns about potential wider conflict involving Iran and Syria. Israel has conducted airstrikes on Lebanese infrastructure, raising fears of a renewed war and the involvement of the Lebanese army. The role of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) is questioned, as they seem to lack a clear mandate in the current crisis. Participants express skepticism about the effectiveness of international diplomacy, particularly the U.S. response, and highlight the complex dynamics of regional politics. Overall, the situation is viewed as precarious, with the potential for significant escalation in hostilities.
  • #151
Anttech said:
Yes it does, you are ensinuating that the patrol was a "peaceful" one. It is like saying a Patrol in Bazra by the Brits is a peaceful one when nobody shoots at them. Israel is NOT at peace, so the patrol would not be a peaceful one.
The British in Bazra are a foreign force in a land in turmoil - how can you even compare the two? Then again it seems you too do not recognise Israel's right to exist.

Anttech said:
They were Captured by an enemy of Israel, from within Israel's borders, by an extreem group of terrorists. NOT by the Lebeonese Army.
That terrorist group is part of the Lebanese government. The UN security council resolution 1559 demands the Lebanese government deploy its military in south Lebanon and disarm Hizbullah. It has not done any of this, and it is absolutely obvious and accepted that the Lebanese government is accountable for the situation.
 
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  • #152
Yonoz said:
I don't see anything in there that supports your claim Israel is punishing the whole of Lebanon. If anything, it shows Lebanese and Britons felt safe enough to watch the bombings:
BTW, the report quotes a woman saying powerplants were hit "one by one" but it fails to mention no powerplants were hit at all. Just an example for my comments about the international media.

So bombing the Airports, and civilian infrastructure isn't hurting the ecconomy of Lebenon? 200 years backwards did I not hear quoted somewhere.

I am surpirsed that you seem to think that the eye witnesses where 'safe' and 'felt' safe enough to watch the destruction of Beruit!
 
  • #153
Yonoz said:
The British in Bazra are a foreign force in a land in turmoil - how can you even compare the two? Then again it seems you too do not recognise Israel's right to exist.

That terrorist group is part of the Lebanese government. The UN security council resolution 1559 demands the Lebanese government deploy its military in south Lebanon and disarm Hizbullah. It has not done any of this, and it is absolutely obvious and accepted that the Lebanese government is accountable for the situation.

Why are you putting words into my mouth. I do recognise Isreal's right to exist, I never said anything to oppose that.

I DO NOT aggree with the Israel's tantrums and the direction they are taking this problem, they need to put their teddies back in the pram and back off a bit.

However I do think that Hezbollha needs to be quashed. But I think the government of Israel's heavy handed approach (As usual it seems) just plays into the hands of these groups.

It may be accepted in Israel, that this is the work of the Lebanesse goverment, but not elsewhere.

Killing of civilians isn't acceptable, on both sides of the fence.
 
  • #154
Anttech said:
So bombing the Airports, and civilian infrastructure isn't hurting the ecconomy of Lebenon?
Just because it's hurting the Lebanese economy doesn't mean Israel is punishing the whole of Lebanon. There are other reasons for bombing infrastructure. Israel is also being harmed financially by this conflict.

Anttech said:
I am surpirsed that you seem to think that the eye witnesses where 'safe' and 'felt' safe enough to watch the destruction of Beruit!
Don't be surprised - read it for yourself:
Times Online said:
She said: "My concern was the children, they were watching the bombing from the apartment every night - the planes coming over, the bombs dropping and the airport blowing up.
I suppose if her children were in danger she wouldn't just let them watch the bombing, would she?
 
  • #155
Where on Earth does it say: they felt safe? Why on Earth did they leave and feel terrible about leaving loved ones?

Do you know how rediculus this sounds? The title of the article is:
'It's good to be safe' - evacuees describe Beirut bombing

maybe if you didnt realize they are saying its good to be safe, because they are now in cyprus!

I suppose if her children were in danger she wouldn't just let them watch the bombing, would she?
:smile: :smile: what was she going to do? cover their eyes? perhaps put a blanket over their heads?
 
  • #156
Anttech said:
However I do think that Hezbollha needs to be quashed. But I think the government of Israel's heavy handed approach (As usual it seems) just plays into the hands of these groups.
What approach would you have taken?

Anttech said:
It may be accepted in Israel, that this is the work of the Lebanesse goverment, but not elsewhere.
That's funny because the Lebanese Parliament majority leader has said that it is the Lebanese government's work.

Anttech said:
Killing of civilians isn't acceptable, on both sides of the fence.
I agree.
 
  • #157
What approach would you have taken?

Look, its your bed you lie in it! War isn't going to work, or do you think it has done so much for Israel in the past?

Israel needs to be seen as doing positive steps in the right direction, and needs to start making consesions. You need these people to like you, or at least tolerate your exsistance. If Palestine was a Happy and more affluent place to live, perhaps people would be less inclined to support extreemist to kill Israeli's. Bombing the Sh!t out of Lebenanon is just what terrorists need, it gives them more public support, and the circle of violence contiunes. Spread YOUR wealth and help these people, YOU stole their land, (with the help of some others it maybe added). They HATE you for this, you need to make them stop hating you! Having powerful friends may make it easy for you to stay in power, but it won't give your people a peace of mind from terrorism. A heavy hand has never worked with Terrorism (Look at Ireland for some examples).
 
  • #158
Anttech said:
what was she going to do? cover their eyes? perhaps put a blanket over their heads?
Just in case you ever have to experience what countless Israelis are experiencing right now: when in a house during a bombardment, the safest place to be (other than a shelter) is as far away from the external walls of the building as possible. So for the past few days Israelis living in the north have constantly been in shelters and rooms with no windows. Many only venture out for basic supplies. If that woman felt her children were in danger she would've taken them to a place safer than right next to the window or on the balcony.
 
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  • #159
Anttech said:
Look, its your bed you lie in it!
Well now, it looks like you speak Israeli. I understand you also think Israel has no better choice.
Anttech said:
War isn't going to work, or do you think it has done so much for Israel in the past?
Do you know anything about Israel's history?
Anttech said:
Israel needs to be seen as doing positive steps in the right direction, and needs to start making consesions.
See that's the problem. No matter what Israel does, it's always seen in a bad light. You can look back to Gokul's post for a list of concessions by Israel.
Anttech said:
You need these people to like you, or at least tolerate your exsistance.
The problem is those people do not recognise our existence. What price does Israel have to pay for "these people" to "like" it? Would any nation compromise its own security to be "liked"?
Anttech said:
If Palestine was a Happy and more affluent place to live, perhaps people would be less inclined to support extreemist to kill Israeli's.
The Palestinians right after the Oslo accords were at the peak compared to any other time in their history. They chose to keep commiting acts of terrorism such as those that brought the Israeli public to elect the hardliner Netanyahu. What was that about sleeping in your own bed?
Anttech said:
Bombing the Sh!t out of Lebenanon is just what terrorists need, it gives them more public support, and the circle of violence contiunes.
We've discussed this, Israel has taken that route in the past - and guess what? The terrorists got more public support. The Lebanese government needs to understand Israel will not allow Hizbullah to keep attacking it.
Anttech said:
Spread YOUR wealth and help these people, YOU stole their land, (with the help of some others it maybe added).
What land? The border is internationally recognised, do I need to explain this again?
Anttech said:
They HATE you for this, you need to make them stop hating you!
The question you should be asking is why do they hate us?
 
  • #160
The question you should be asking is why do they hate us?
You know the answer to that question:

Let me repeat myself:

You stole their land! Would you like me to show you a map of Palestine, pre-Isreal http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pre48maptoc.html? Was it an Organic transformation from Palestine to Isreal after WW2? Where all parties where happy? Untill you can admit to yourself the truth and more importantly your government there will never be any hope.
 
  • #161
Anttech said:
You stole their land! Would you like me to show you a map of Palestine, pre-Isreal http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pre48maptoc.html? Was it an Organic transformation from Palestine to Isreal after WW2? Where all parties where happy? Untill you can admit to yourself the truth and more importantly your government there will never be any hope.
So you do not recognise Israel's right to exist.
 
  • #162
Anntech, I wasn't aware that Palestine was a subsidiary of the Lebanese government.
 
  • #163
No... Yonoz get a grip stop twisting what I am saying. You own the land, you are the most powerful there, thus you have ownership. However that doesn't negate the fact that for the last time YOU STOLE THIER LAND. It happens everywhere all the time, The Brittish did it everywhere, including Ireland. But I recognise the right of the Northern Irelanders to choose if they want to be part of the UK or not. equally I recognise that Israel has the right to exsit. I am not going to say this again. I am TELLING you why these people HATE you! This is their perception, you stole their land, and they are in a bad way and want something better. They see you will SO much more money and wonder why they have to live like penned in Animals. So it becomes a breeding gorund for extreemist. You won't win this war with Force, you may win it with Kind.
 
  • #164
Office_Shredder said:
Anntech, I wasn't aware that Palestine was a subsidiary of the Lebanese government.

I wasnt either. Thanks for that information :rolleyes:
 
  • #165
Anttech said:
No... Yonoz get a grip stop twisting what I am saying. You own the land, you are the most powerful there, thus you have ownership. However that doesn't negate the fact that for the last time YOU STOLE THIER LAND. It happens everywhere all the time, The Brittish did it everywhere, including Ireland. But I recognise the right of the Northern Irelanders to choose if they want to be part of the UK or not. equally I recognise that Israel has the right to exsit. I am not going to say this again. I am TELLING you why these people HATE you! This is their perception, you stole their land, and they are in a bad way and want something better. They see you will SO much more money and wonder why they have to live like penned in Animals. So it becomes a breeding gorund for extreemist. You won't win this war with Force, you may win it with Kind.
What do you mean when you say "you stole their land"? Before you answer that question, do yourself a favour, read a little about the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan" .
As I've said before, this has nothing to do with the Palestinian's financial state. They flourished under Israeli rule and then again after the Oslo accords. Still, they chose the path of violence.
 
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  • #166
So what do you think their perception is of what happened? Answer yourself this question and perhaps then we might be on the same page. This is symantics anyway, we have a difference in opinion as to what happened. BUT the perception of your enemies is the one you must look at, once you can stop them hating you for what happened, because they do, then you might be able to have peace.

OR do you not aggree? And tend to think you need to wipe out all the "terrorists" with an Iron fist, and force your enemies to love you!
 
  • #167
Anttech said:
So what do you think their perception is of what happened? Answer yourself this question and perhaps then we might be on the same page. This is symantics anyway, we have a difference in opinion as to what happened. BUT the perception of your enemies is the one you must look at, once you can stop them hating you for what happened, because they do, then you might be able to have peace.
I've come to the conclusion there's no way the current generation will stop hating Israel. I don't think there'll be peace here for at least 2 or 3 generations.
 
  • #168
Humans have the ability of forgiving, and for healing emmotional wounds. Look at Europe, Germany (in the form of the Nazi's) Killed Many Many people, and many of your race. Yet we are now in a situation now where they are fully intergrated into the EU.

I think this had a LOT to do with the Marshal plan, something that the Americans got right. Israel needs to give back to its neighbours likewise. Really this is what I think, you can gain peace for the middle east with Kind, and less perceieved hypocracy (in the form of totaly unaquivilale support from the Americans (something they are getting wrong right now)).

My opinion --
 
  • #169
Anttech said:
I think this had a LOT to do with the Marshal plan, something that the Americans got right. Israel needs to give back to its neighbours likewise. Really this is what I think, you can gain peace for the middle east with Kind, and less perceieved hypocracy (in the form of totaly unaquivilale support from the Americans (something they are getting wrong right now)).

My opinion --
Yes, the Marshall Plan is largely responsible for Germany and Japan being fully integrated into the world community today, but it required first the utter conquest and unconditional surrender of both. That situation does no exist in the ME, so there can't be a Marshall Plan for the countries surrounding Israel.
 
  • #170
kyleb said:
I am speaking with the respect to the fact that contraction in the areas you mention does nothing to negate the reality of continuing expansion and occupation in other areas.
Is Israel bigger today than it was 5 years ago? 10 years ago?

I'm not being apologist for the illegal occupation they have engaged in, and I'm only half disappointed that the UN hardly holds their feet to the fire about it. I'm merely failing to inderstand your use of the word 'expansion'. To me, when something expands, it gets bigger.
 
  • #171
Anttech said:
You stole their land!
That certainly is the perception, and Israel does recognize that they have to give at least some land back. They've already started to do that.

But right now, the only coherent solution to this problem offered by the Palestinians involves the Israeli people evaporating. They are not negotiating. If they want to continue that stance, then they will continue to have a solution imposed on them by force.

That is the reason the upper echelon of the world community almost universally supports Israel. Even Russia and China now. They recognize that only Israel is making an honest effort to resolve this conflict.

edit: Actually, there is another reason: Hezbollah (as always) is primarily targeting civlians. While the international community recognizes the toll being taken on the Lebanese, intential killing of civilians is murder and that makes Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
 
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  • #172
Anttech said:
Just one point, You don't Kidnap Soldiers you capture them. Although the American Media is presenting it as such it is inaccurate. A Soldier is captured, a civilian is kidnapped.
Soldiers are captured in a battle. When you take someone for the purpose of holding them hostage for ransom, that is kidnapping, whether they are wearing a uniform or not.

But regardless of what you want to call it, these soldiers were not engaged in battle and now they are. Why? Because they were attacked. Hezbollah started the current conflict and the world community recognizes that.
 
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  • #173
Yonoz said:
I don't get this - Hizbullah attacked Israeli *civilians* on the Israeli side of the border for the umpteenth time since the pullout. Israel responds by attacking Hizbullah's weapons. Why are you saying Israel is escalating this?
How many Hizbullah attacks since Israeli started attacking compared to Hizbullah attacks in the same number of days before that? That is the escalation I am speaking of.
Yonoz said:
There is an international security force in Lebanon.
That gives reasonable grounds to put a more effective international security force in Lebanon, not to start a war.
pcorbett said:
So don't you think you should share with us what areas you think Israel is expanding into?
I have posted maps showing exactly that as well an article about Bush asking for the Israeli expansion to stop, I think you all should acknowledge those facts.
Gokul43201 said:
I'm merely failing to inderstand your use of the word 'expansion'.
The continuing building and extending of Israeli settlements within Palestinian land is the expansion I speak of.
 
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  • #174
kyleb said:
How many Hizbullah attacks since Israeli started attacking compared to Hizbullah attacks in the same number of days before that? That is the escalation I am speaking of.
Here's a http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/79/943223" . Note it's only for Wednesday, you can use the link on the bottom left to see the previous days. Now imagine that was your country - would you do any calculation about your response?
 
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  • #175
kyleb said:
That gives reasonable grounds to put a more effective international security force in Lebanon, not to start a war.
I believe the proper expression is "get real".
 
  • #176
I hope this will end soon. IDF warplanes dropped 23 tonnes of bombs on a bunker that may have housed a Hizbullah leadership meeting.
 
  • #177
Yonoz, could you please answer my question? How many Hizbullah attacks has there been since Israeli started attacking compared to Hizbullah attacks in the same number of days before that?
 
  • #178
Latest count is something like 900 rocket attacks in the past week and there was, of course, one incursion before Israel responded. What is your point? - that's how wars start, with a single act!
 
  • #179
As I said, there seems no end to the conflict between these people. I propose that once the situation in Lebanon becomes a bit calm and peaceful, the world community boycott both Israelis and Palestinians and force them to come to terms on their own so that they learn to tolerate and make peace with each other and seeing that they are originally the same people or mutually self-destruct. This way the world can move on to more important issues such as overpopulation and the massive destruction of the environment.
 
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  • #180
russ_watters said:
Latest count is something like 900 rocket attacks in the past week and there was, of course, one incursion before Israel responded. What is your point? - that's how wars start, with a single act!
My point is, that is escalation.
 
  • #181
Yonoz said:
What kind of response did you expect?
BTW IMO it's the media that's over-reacting. I know there's a slim chance you'll believe me, but I'd like to mention that most of what I see on BBC and CNN is grossly inaccurate. You get the impression as if Beirut in its entirety is targetted, while only one neighbourhood is being bombarded and that after being showered with pamphlets asking civilians to get away several hours earlier. Of course, foreign reporters never go into that Hizbullah neighbourhood so they have no idea.
As stated, Israel overreacted as usual, meaning I expect such action.

To begin, those who are either Jews or Arabs cannot be objective. I am neither a Jew or an Arab and strive to look at the matter without bias, thus taking neither side. One can debate the history endlessly with the only positive outcome possibly being that of understanding each side. But never does such debate culminate in solutions. So in regard to history I will briefly say that, in general, changes in borders--or in this case creating a new nation state will always result in conflict so I question the wisdom of creating Israel in the first place. But it has been done, and I wish the world could just move on in peace. And I say "the world" because unfortunately the entire world is dragged into this ongoing conflict.

My criticism is and always has been of U.S. foreign policy, and to remember to look at such crisis from the big picture point of view. First and foremost the hypocritical double-standard interference and meddling in the Middle East (which has included biased support of Israel) is at the root of the problems there. To expand further on my comments, more recent policies that grew from neoconservative think tanks has made matters even worse. Most notably that illegal regime change to remove Saddam has not resulted in more stability in the region (nor would this be the case in Syria, ahem), and U.S. (or Israeli) aggressiveness has only fuelled anti-west sentiment. With U.S. history and the recent invasion and occupation of Iraq, radical groups such as Hezbollah have gained strength (though I don't know what's worse--this or Americans apathy). Also, the theory that democracy would spread has proven to be a great disappointment. In regard to Lebanon, the so-called government barely exists even so shortly after recent elections.

Now there is no other option but to deal with groups like Hezbollah in a forceful way. And once again the world must fear escalation that could spread beyond a localized skirmish. Personally I suspect that's what a paranoid, hawkish Israel wants. Let's just hope the military action (or war?) remains localized. And let's hope people don't get too hung up on Iranian weapons. After all, it is the U.S. who sold the most arms to Iran in the first place.

What we need is for the U.S. to develop a real and meaningful foreign policy...for everyones sake, because it isn't all about you or them.
 
  • #182
You [kyleb] also said they should not have done it. Why? Why is violence an unreasonable reaction to violence from a group that wants you annihilated?
 
  • #183
Did those 250 Lebanese civilians want Israel annihilated? :confused:

I can understand a reaction against Hezbollah, but not against civilians. Only 2 hezbollah out of 250 civilians, no. Find an effective way of killing Hezbollah if that's your goal. I have no problem if you can do that.
 
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  • #184
Violence begets violence (spiral escalation). It's better to take away their reason to be (anger), and replace it with hope for a better way of life.
 
  • #185
Russ, I'm saying I don't see that other reasonable means had been exhausted, or even given a valid effort for that matter.
 
  • #186
So in regard to history I will briefly say that, in general, changes in borders--or in this case creating a new nation state will always result in conflict so I question the wisdom of creating Israel in the first place. But it has been done, and I wish the world could just move on in peace. And I say "the world" because unfortunately the entire world is dragged into this ongoing conflict

Because, it would totally be better if that land was still controlled by Great Britain. Palestine totally wouldn't be occupied or anything then... oh, right.
 
  • #187
This is interesting - Shimon Peres went on Larry King today and disputed the accepted Lebanese casualties:

Shimon Peres said:
PERES: No, no. We informed publicly, we told many of the Lebanese people who live among the terrorists, we told them either get rid of the missiles or leave your homes. We warned them and then we let everybody that wants to get out, we stopped the shooting and we let everybody go out. Nobody was hurt, by the way. And also, the numbers of the victims are not acceptable.

We think the information coming from Lebanon is totally unreliable, as their behavior is unacceptable.
So we're not impressed by it. I know that every night our headquarters hits house and house to make sure that no civilian life will be hit, that no civilian infrastructure will be destroyed. We are not inconsiderated.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0607/19/lkl.01.html

What? "Nobody was hurt"?!
 
  • #188
cyrusabdollahi said:
Did those 250 Lebanese civilians want Israel annihilated? :confused:

I can understand a reaction against Hezbollah, but not against civilians. Only 2 hezbollah out of 250 civilians, no. Find an effective way of killing Hezbollah if that's your goal. I have no problem if you can do that.
Setting aside that Lebanon isn't differentiating between civilian and Hezbollah deaths*, "Against civilians" implies you think Israel was intentionally targeting civilians. Do you?

*source: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/20/mideast/index.html
The Lebanese Internal Security Forces reported, however, that 216 people had been killed and 524 injured as of 8 p.m. (1 p.m. ET) Wednesday.
Contrast that with Israel, which specifically lists them separately:
With Wednesday's deaths, 29 Israelis -- 15 civilians and 14 soldiers -- have been killed in the weeklong fighting, according to the IDF.
That's just one of the realities of dealing with a terrorist organization: it is virtually impossible to separate civilian and terrorist causalties because they go to great lengths to hide amongst civilians, which, of course, places the blame for the civilian deaths squarely on the shoulders of Hezbollah according to international law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield
Human shield is a military term describing the presence of civilians in or around combat targets to deter an enemy from attacking those targets. It may also be used to describe the use of civilians to literally shield combatants during attacks, by forcing the civilians to march in front of the soldiers during human wave attacks. Using this technique increases the civilian casualty rate and is highly illegal in any nation that is party to the Fourth Geneva Convention.
 
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  • #189
SOS2008 said:
Violence begets violence (spiral escalation). It's better to take away their reason to be (anger), and replace it with hope for a better way of life.
Worthless liberal B.S. rhetoric. Tell me: how did that work for dealing with Hitler?

When someone wants nothing less than your death, you have a simple choice: kill them or let them kill you.

If you disagree, explain how what you just said can actually be implimented. How exactly can Israel "take away their reason [for anger]" without committing mass suicide? What can they reasonably do? How can Israel provide hope? How does not punishing a criminal help ensure that criminal won't commit the same crime again?
 
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  • #190
kyleb said:
Russ, I'm saying I don't see that other reasonable means had been exhausted, or even given a valid effort for that matter.
Well what is "other reasonable means" and what would constitute a "valid effort"? We can go around in circles forever with this (and with SOS too) - 'war is not the answer' is a slogan, not a means for achieving peace. It is easy to criticize, but you guys are not providing real solutions. If you can't think of a "reasonable means", perhaps that is because there isn't one?

Israel has tried things such as unilateral withdrawals from occupied territories and going to the bargaining table. The other side has not budged an inch from their stance of requiring Israel's annihilation. Which side is making a "reasonable" effort and which isn't?
 
  • #191
kyleb said:
Yonoz, could you please answer my question? How many Hizbullah attacks has there been since Israeli started attacking compared to Hizbullah attacks in the same number of days before that?
kyleb, it occurs to me you have no real grasp of the dynamics in this region. Here's an article to help you understand why Hizbullah is bad for the Middle East:
http://www.waronline.org/en/analysis/pal_weapons.htm"
 

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  • #192
Worthless liberal B.S. rhetoric. Tell me: how did that work for dealing with Hitler?
Worthless liberal B.S. rhetoric? Nice argument Russ :)

Did you not already conceed that the marshal plan worked? Perhaps readup on your history. WW1 left germany in a bad way, the people got angry voted in a megalomanica FACIST and voila WW2 killing another 15 Million people. After WW2 YOUR government together with many others put the marshal plan into action, it created well being amount the Axis and no more war!

The Logic is really very straight forward.
 
  • #193
cyrusabdollahi said:
I can understand a reaction against Hezbollah, but not against civilians. Only 2 hezbollah out of 250 civilians, no. Find an effective way of killing Hezbollah if that's your goal. I have no problem if you can do that.
No one can deliver an accurate picture of Hizbulla and civilian casualties at this point. There's really no way to distinguish a Hizbullah activist from a civilian. I suggest you wait until the conflict is over, which will hopefully be quite soon, before you pass judgement. In the meantime here's the http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/../SIP_STORAGE/DOVER/files/4/54604.wmv" .
 
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  • #194
Yonoz said:
kyleb, it occurs to me you have no real grasp of the dynamics in this region. Here's an article to help you understand why Hizbullah is bad for the Middle East:
http://www.waronline.org/en/analysis/pal_weapons.htm"

Hizbullah is bad for the region. But not Lebanon. If your govermenet bring down the government of Lebanenon you will land yourselfs in an even worse situation. The Vacum created by your disposing of a democratic government will be filled by Syria. Yes I aggree get rid of hezbullah, but not at any expense.

I was watching on the news last night (BBC) how many Trucks that have been destroyed now, even convoys of trucks by the Israeli's, the reason: Because they *May* have the ability to carry rockets??!?

Crazy, I hope israel's *daddy* the American Goverment will remove the carte blanche they have given Israel soon, before its too late.
 
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  • #195
Anttech said:
Hizbullah is bad for the region. But not Lebanon. If your govermenet bring down the government of Lebanenon you will land yourselfs in an even worse situation. The Vacum created by your disposing of a democratic government will be filled by Syria. Yes I aggree get rid of hezbullah.
One of Israel's declared aims is to bring the Lebanese military to deploy in south Lebanon. The IDF keeps from attacking Lebanese military facilities unless they're involved in aiding Hizbullah, such as those naval radar installations. Mark my words: Lebanon's government, perhaps minus one Hizbullah minister, will emerge without a scratch.
 
  • #196
I highly doubt that, unless YOU pay for the damage you have cause to their infrastructure. Which is not what is going to happen. Maybe they will still be in power, but like lame ducks, not powerful leadership which is what that country needs.

Tourism was on the up in Lebaneon, Hell I would have Loved to visit there. But after this no way. They have a fragile ecconomy and fragile goverment.
 
  • #197
Anttech said:
I highly doubt that, unless YOU pay for the damage you have cause to their infrastructure. Which is not what is going to happen. Maybe they will still be in power, but like lame ducks, not powerful leadership which is what that country needs.
On the contrary: the Lebanese government and people were at the hands of Hizbullah when this began. Hizbullah hijacked the Lebanese government's decision making. Hizbullah decided when Lebanon will be involved and to what extent in whatever conflict Hizbullah chose. Now that Hizbullah is "defanged", as someone put it, it can be just another normal political party.
Let's not forget another small historical tidbit: the Syrian occupation. I think as long as the Lebanese government acts in the best interest of its citizens it will remain intact.

Anttech said:
Tourism was on the up in Lebaneon, Hell I would have Loved to visit there. But after this no way. They have a fragile ecconomy and fragile goverment.
We have had 2 children killed here yesterday, and you're concerned with Lebanon's tourism?!
 
  • #198
Yes I am! why shouldn't I be?
 
  • #199
Anttech said:
Yes I am! why shouldn't I be?
Because there will be no peace in the region if Hizbullah continue to harm Israeli civilians. If Hizbullah is not disarmed then there will be more attacks on Israeli civilians and more limited responses - so the tourism industry is the last thing you should be worried about.
BTW we also have a tourism industry. One of northern Israel's biggest industries is the tourism industry, financing hundreds if not thousands of families. Every time Hizbullah shells northern Israel, they lose their incomes. Never heard anyone outside Israel complain about that though.
 
  • #200
Sure, I am not denying that fact. Tel Aviv looks like a nice place. Also being Greek I would like to go to jerusalem. But that's beside the point. Israel is far richer than Lebenon. And Yes I remember recent history, and if you topple the Lebonen government it will repeat its-self. Lebenon should and will be if left to its owe devices be a democratic secular state! Yonoz, Israel is destroying the fabric of the civilian infrastructure in Lebenon, it will take years to repair and hundereds of millions of Euros. The same cannot be said of israel. I feel sorry for your blight, but I truly think the "punishment" that is being given back to lebenon is totally disproportionate.
 

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