Will the weight of jar changed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the weight registered by a scale when a jar containing flies is placed on it, specifically comparing scenarios where the flies are sitting on the bottom of the jar versus flying inside it. The scope includes conceptual reasoning and interpretations of Newton's laws of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the book's assertion that the weight of the jar remains the same regardless of whether the flies are resting or flying, suggesting that the weight of the flies should be included when they are on the bottom.
  • Another participant references Newton's 3rd Law of motion, stating that when flies fly, they push down on the air, which in turn pushes back on the bottom of the jar.
  • A participant asserts that the weight of the flies is included in both scenarios, whether they are at rest or in flight.
  • One participant proposes that when flies are flying, a pressure differential is created, affecting the total force measured by the scale, which equals the weight of the air and the flies.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that the weight could decrease when flies are flying upwards, suggesting that the dynamics of flying and potential impacts with the jar cap could alter the weight registered by the scale.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the weight registered by the scale changes based on the flies' behavior, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the sensitivity of the scale and the effects of pressure differentials are not fully explored, leaving room for further clarification on how these factors influence the weight measurement.

KFC
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I read the following problem in a book

"A bunch of flies are in a capped jar. you place the jar on a scale. The scale will register the most weight when the flies are
a) sitting on the bottom of the jar
b) flying around inside the jar
c) ... weight of the jar is the same in both cases"

The answer from the book about this problem is c). But I don't understand if the flies are sitting on the bottom, I think we should add the weights of flies even it is so tiny (if we consider the scale is sensitive enough for no matter how small the weight is?). But why the answer will be c)?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Newton's 3rd Law of motion. Flies fly by pushing down air. Air pushes at the bottom of the jar.

Mythbusters actually tried this one with birds in a truck.
 
KFC said:
But I don't understand if the flies are sitting on the bottom, I think we should add the weights of flies even it is so tiny
You do include the weight of the flies.

You include the weight of the flies both when they are at rest on the floor of the jar and when flying around in the jar.
 
When the flies are flying, then the pressure differential within the jar is increases so that the pressure at the top is a bit less and the pressure at the bottom is a bit more, and the total force created by this pressure differential will exactly equal the weight of the air and the weight of the flies.
 
Actually the weight can decrease when the flies are flying up.

When a fly is flying then suddenly accelerates upwards, the jar will "weigh more". Also when the fly bangs its head on the jar cap, it will "weigh less".

Also there is a delay in the pressure wave created by the wings until it strikes the bottom of the jar, but the speed of sound is large compared to the jar size.
 

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