Work and isothermal compressibility

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving 1 kg of water subjected to an isothermal pressure increase from 1 atmosphere to 1000 atmospheres. Participants explore concepts such as work done, heat change, and temperature change under adiabatic conditions, while referencing relevant equations related to pressure, volume, and thermal properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to express work in terms of pressure changes rather than volume changes, and some express confusion regarding the use of Maxwell relations and partial derivatives. Questions about the definition of isothermal compressibility and its implications for integration are raised. There is also discussion about the appropriateness of separating variables in integrals involving partial derivatives.

Discussion Status

The conversation includes attempts to clarify the integration of equations related to compressibility and the implications for volume changes. Some participants express uncertainty about the integration process and the evaluation of limits, while others provide insights into the relationship between pressure and volume. Guidance is offered regarding the integration by parts approach, though consensus on the next steps is not reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discomfort with partial derivatives and the implications of using the ideal gas law for liquid water, indicating a need for further clarification on these concepts.

Chris B
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Homework Statement


1 kg of water is at room temperature and the pressure is isothermally increased on the system from 1 atmosphere to 1000 atmospheres. What is the work done? What is the change in heat? What would be the temperature change if this was done adiabatically? The volumetric thermal expansion is 1.5 10-5/K and the isothermal compressibility is 4.9 10-12/Pa.

2. Relevant equation
PV=nRT
dW=-PdV
α=1/V(dV/dT)p = 1.5*10^-5/K (that's partial v partial t at constant p)
and
κ=-1/V(dV/dP)t (partial v partial p at constant t)

The Attempt at a Solution



So for part 1 I figure I have to get dW=-PdV into a form that has dP instead of dV, since we don't know the change in volume. I'm pretty much lost at that point. I'm not too clear on how to use Maxwell relations and partial derivatives are kind of confusing to me.
 
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Chris B said:

Homework Statement


1 kg of water is at room temperature and the pressure is isothermally increased on the system from 1 atmosphere to 1000 atmospheres. What is the work done? What is the change in heat? What would be the temperature change if this was done adiabatically? The volumetric thermal expansion is 1.5 10-5/K and the isothermal compressibility is 4.9 10-12/Pa.

2. Relevant equation
PV=nRT
dW=-PdV
α=1/V(dV/dT)p = 1.5*10^-5/K (that's partial v partial t at constant p)
and
κ=-1/V(dV/dP)t (partial v partial p at constant t)

The Attempt at a Solution



So for part 1 I figure I have to get dW=-PdV into a form that has dP instead of dV, since we don't know the change in volume. I'm pretty much lost at that point. I'm not too clear on how to use Maxwell relations and partial derivatives are kind of confusing to me.

What is the definition of "isothermal compressibility"?
 
Can you integrate the equation ##\frac{1}{V}\frac{dV}{dP}=-κ## from the initial pressure to any arbitrary pressure P to get the volume at pressure P? Can you integrate PdV by parts?

Chet
 
I assume isothermal compressibility is just how easy or hard it is to compress something at constant temperature.

Can I integrate the equation for the compressibility? I'm not sure if you're allowed to separate dV and dP when they're partials at constant T. Like I said, I'm not comfortable with the partials yet. If you could separate them you'd get ln|V|=-κ P (would you not evaluate the integral for P at the limits 1 and 1000?). Then you'd exponentiate both sides so V = e-κP ?

PdV by parts is PV-∫VdP .

I'm still not seeing how that helps.
 
Chris B said:
I assume isothermal compressibility is just how easy or hard it is to compress something at constant temperature.

Can I integrate the equation for the compressibility? I'm not sure if you're allowed to separate dV and dP when they're partials at constant T. Like I said, I'm not comfortable with the partials yet. If you could separate them you'd get ln|V|=-κ P (would you not evaluate the integral for P at the limits 1 and 1000?). Then you'd exponentiate both sides so V = e-κP ?

That's it, except when you integrate, you get an arbitrary constant. So you have:
ln(V) = -\kappa P + C
V = e^C e^{-\kappa P}

You have to pick the constant C so that when P = P_0, then V=V_0, where P_0 and V_0 are the initial pressure and volume.
 
Chris B said:
PdV by parts is PV-∫VdP .

I'm still not seeing how that helps.
In addition to what what stevendaryl just said, if you know V as a function of P, you can integrate VdP.

Chet
 
Okay, I think this gives me enough to work on. Thanks.
 
Actually I have one more question. When I do the integration by parts for -PdV I get -(PV-∫VdP). The first term in that equation should be evaluated at the limits 1 and 1000 Pa right? So I put V in terms of P, but then the P's cancel out (V=nRT/P) and there's nothing to evaluate. Is that right?
 
Chris B said:
Actually I have one more question. When I do the integration by parts for -PdV I get -(PV-∫VdP). The first term in that equation should be evaluated at the limits 1 and 1000 Pa right? So I put V in terms of P, but then the P's cancel out (V=nRT/P) and there's nothing to evaluate. Is that right?
No. Liquid water doesn't obey the ideal gas law.

Chet
 

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