Work done by a distributed force on a string

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the work done by a distributed force on a string, exploring the mathematical formulation and the implications of different assumptions regarding the force and the string's properties. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to the dynamics of the string under the influence of the force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the work done by the force in changing the configuration of the string can be expressed as an integral involving the force and the change in the string's amplitude.
  • Another participant questions the direction of the force and suggests that the limits of integration should reflect changes in time rather than position, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the setup.
  • A later reply agrees with the idea that the limits should include changes in time and seeks clarification on how to handle the total derivative when excluding certain terms.
  • One participant discusses an approach that neglects tension in the string, proposing a method to calculate infinitesimal work and total work while acknowledging that real-life scenarios would require consideration of elasticity and tension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the limits of integration and the treatment of the force acting on the string. There is no consensus on the correct formulation or approach, and multiple competing views remain regarding the assumptions and mathematical treatment of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of the assumptions made about the force and the string's properties, such as tension and elasticity, which may affect the analysis. The discussion also reveals uncertainties regarding the correct limits for integration and the implications of the total derivative in this context.

Eidos
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Hi All

I'd like to know how I could calculate the work done by a distributed force on a string.

Let's say the force at a point x at a time t is given by

F(x,t).

Now the instantaneous amplitude of the string is given by y(x,t), say

I think that the work done by the force in changing the configuration of the string from some y(x_0,t_0) to y(x,t) should be something like
\int_{y(x_0,t_0)}^{y(x,t)} F(x,t) dy

I'll use the total derivative on y(x,t) which gives

dy=y_t dt+y_x dx

where

\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}=y_x

Now the integral becomes something like

\int F(x,t) y_t dt + \int F(x,t) y_x dx

My concerns here are the limits I need to put in each integral.

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D
 
Last edited:
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I would like to ask some questions to understand this better.

How does the force \vec{F}(x,t) act on the string? I'm guessing it's perpendicular to the x direction and along the y direction?

If it is perpendicular, why are you integrating from y(x_{0},t_{0}) to y(x,t) ? Shouldn't it be integrated from y(x,t_{0}) to y(x,t) ? (i.e. instead of \int_{y(x_{0},t_{0})}^{y(x,t)} F(x,t) dy , I think it should be \int_{y(x,t_{0})}^{y(x,t)} F(x,t) dy ). I mean, why does the x coordinate change?
 
I've attached the picture of how the force enters the system.

I agree with your assertion that the limits should include changes in t only.
How will this effect my change of variable then?

That is when I take the total derivative of dy,
how do I exclude y_x dx from the total derivative?
 

Attachments

  • stringforce.png
    stringforce.png
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If the tension in the string is completely neglected, my approach would be

  • Find the infinitesimal work dW(x) done between x and x + dx by dW(x) = \int_{y(x,t_{0})}^{y(x,t)} F(x,t) dy. If F doesn't cahnge with time, just take it as F(x). If it does, then find y(t) using Newton's second law for the part of string between x and x+dx with mass m by F(x,t) = m \frac{ \partial^{2} y }{ \partial t^{2} }
  • Find the total work by W = \int_{x=x_{1}}^{x_{2}} dW(x) dx

But a string in real life would have elasticity and tension and that analysis would be different. Then there would also be the extra work done to stretch the string.
 

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