Work done for stationary object

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of work done on stationary objects, specifically examining the energy expenditure when pushing against an immovable wall compared to moving an object like a brick. Participants explore the relationship between force, movement, and energy transfer, considering both mechanical and biological perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether pushing a stationary wall results in no loss of chemical energy, as the wall does not move, and seeks clarification on energy transfer in this scenario.
  • Another participant suggests that while work done is related to distance, muscles still expend energy to exert force due to biological inefficiencies and the maintenance of electrostatic potential.
  • A response indicates that work is not the only means of losing energy, implying that energy can be expended in other ways even without movement.
  • It is noted that the human body continuously converts chemical energy into heat, regardless of physical activity.
  • One participant emphasizes that energy is expended due to the inefficiency of biological systems, contrasting this with inanimate objects like springs or water that can exert force without energy loss.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy expenditure when pushing against a stationary object. There is no consensus on whether pushing a wall results in no loss of chemical energy, as some argue that energy is still expended due to biological inefficiencies.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the nuances of energy transfer, including the distinction between mechanical work and biological energy expenditure. The conversation highlights the complexity of defining energy loss in different contexts, particularly between living organisms and inanimate objects.

MBBphys
Gold Member
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Say I take a brick and push it and it moves, so work is done and chemical energy in my body is transferred into kinetic energy of the brick, which is then transformed to heat energy due to friction, so I have to keep pushing to transfer more of my chemical energy into kinetic energy of the brick. That I understand.

But say I am pushing a wall hard with my palm, and neither the brick nor I move; does this mean I am not losing any chemical energy and no energy is being transferred out of my body?
I.e. theoretically if I keep pushing the brick, I will lose the chemical energy store/lose mass, but then for the wall example, does the W=Fd formula mean I do not lose chemical energy/lose mass because the wall does not move?
But surely energy is expended when I push the wall?

I would much appreciate it if you could clarify this for me. Thanks in advance! :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Even though the work done on the object relates to the distance the force advances, muscles do work just in exerting a force. Muscles contract by setting up an electrostatic potential between cells. I would guess there is some leakage, so work has to be done just to maintain the potential.
 
MBBphys said:
I.e. theoretically if I keep pushing the brick, I will lose the chemical energy store/lose mass, but then for the wall example, does the W=Fd formula mean I do not lose chemical energy/lose mass because the wall does not move?

No, work is not the only way to lose energy.
 
MBBphys said:
But surely energy is expended when I push the wall?

You expend energy because you are an inefficient biological machine. A spring wedged between two walls would happily push on them without expending any energy. The water in a swimming pool pushes on the walls without expending energy either.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: MBBphys
MBBphys said:
But say I am pushing a wall hard with my palm, and neither the brick nor I move; does this mean I am not losing any chemical energy and no energy is being transferred out of my body?
Your body is converting chemical energy into heat all the time, even without you pushing anything.
 
don't you get hot..and maybe frustrated pushing against this wall?..Heat is a form of energy...frustration is not !
 
CWatters said:
You expend energy because you are an inefficient biological machine. A spring wedged between two walls would happily push on them without expending any energy. The water in a swimming pool pushes on the walls without expending energy either.
Your example made it very obvious; thanks a lot!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
4K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
7K