Work Done in Changing Shape of Current Carrying Loop

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the work done in transforming a square current-carrying loop into a circular current-carrying loop while maintaining the same length and angular orientation in an external magnetic field. Participants explore the relationship between potential energy, magnetic moment, and work done during this morphing process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the potential energy formula P = M.B, questioning its validity when the magnetic moment changes while the angle remains constant.
  • Another participant notes the significance of the ratio 4/π of the areas in the context of the problem.
  • A participant expresses difficulty in computing an integral related to the work done, which involves complex trigonometric terms.
  • One participant proposes a method to find the solution by considering the change in potential energy between two loops with different magnetic moments, suggesting that the potential energy difference can be computed when the angle between M and B is zero.
  • Another participant elaborates on the work done by the magnetic field and its relation to potential energy, providing a mathematical expression for the work done during the rotation of the magnetic dipole.
  • A later reply suggests combining previous points, indicating that the ratio of magnetic moments corresponds to the ratio of areas for the same current, and proposes a method to compute the change in potential energy as a means to find the work done.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of potential energy formulas and the computation of work done, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their calculations, such as unresolved mathematical steps and the complexity of the integrals involved, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

Anmoldeep
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How would you go about calculating the work done in morphing a square current-carrying loop into a circular current-carrying loop, without change in length while maintaining the same angular orientation with an external magnetic field.

My book suggests defining P(potential energy) = M.B (dot product of magnetic moment and magnetic field)

I am familiar with the above formula for a varying angle between M and B but not for a varying magnetic moment. If it's true please help me in deriving it.
Suppose for the question
1.) Edge if Square loop is 'a'
2.) Current = I
3.) Magnetic field (Uniform and perpendicular to the plane of the loop)
 
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The relevant factor is the ratio ##4/\pi## of the areas :smile:
 
ergospherical said:
The relevant factor is the ratio ##4/\pi## of the areas :smile:
Thanks for that, although I wanted a deeper explanation as to why potential energy is still defined by the same way, P=M.B is found by integrating Torque =MxB w.r.t (theta), here though theta remains the same and M is changing, I have found an integral by mapping every elemental length on the square back to the circle and calculating the work done for all such elemental length's but the integral is not computable, it has truncated trigonometric terms like cos(pi/4tan(theta)-theta) that too under the square root along with other terms.
 
Anmoldeep said:
Thanks for that, although I wanted a deeper explanation as to why potential energy is still defined by the same way, P=M.B is found by integrating Torque =MxB w.r.t (theta), here though theta remains the same and M is changing, I have found an integral by mapping every elemental length on the square back to the circle and calculating the work done for all such elemental length's but the integral is not computable, it has truncated trigonometric terms like cos(pi/4tan(theta)-theta) that too under the square root along with other terms.
I think I found the solution, the textbook directly suggested the use of PE=-M.B, however we know that
Del(PE)=M.B(1-cos(theta))=PEtheta - PE0
consider two separate loops of magnetic moment M1 and M2 (square and circle respectively)
Del(PE1)=M1.B(1-cos(theta))=PEtheta - PE0
and
Del(PE2)=M2.B(1-cos(theta))=PEtheta - PE0

choose theta = pi/2 and the PEtheta term will cancel out, subtract the remaining expressions and you get the required answer as the difference in potential energies of the loops when angle between M and B is 0
 
Last edited:
Anmoldeep said:
Thanks for that, although I wanted a deeper explanation as to why potential energy is still defined by the same way, P=M.B is found by integrating Torque =MxB w.r.t (theta)
Recall that the moment ##\mathbf{K}## acting on the magnetic dipole is ##\mathbf{K} = \mathbf{m} \times \mathbf{B}##. If the dipole is rotated to angle ##\theta## (e.g. about an axis perpendicular to the plane containing ##\mathbf{m}## and ##\mathbf{B}##) then the work done by the magnetic field is \begin{align*}
w(\theta) = \int^{\theta} \mathbf{K} \cdot d\boldsymbol{\varphi} = -\int^{\theta} mB \sin{\varphi} d\varphi = mB \cos{\varphi} \bigg{|}^{\theta} = mB\cos{\theta} + c_0
\end{align*}##c_0## can be set arbitrarily. The potential energy is simply ##u = -w = -\mathbf{m} \cdot \mathbf{B}##.
 
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Supplementary to the above posts, maybe combining them (?):

Ratio of mag moment = ratio of areas for same current.
Then compute ## \Delta PE ## as I think @ergospherical describes.
Then ## \Delta W = \Delta P.E. ##, W = work.
 

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