Work Energy Theorem for Variable Mass Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the application of the work-energy theorem to variable mass systems, exploring both theoretical and mathematical foundations. Participants express curiosity about the derivation of the theorem in this context and provide examples of variable mass systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mathematical basis for the work-energy theorem in variable mass systems, noting that while it may be experimentally validated, a formal derivation is lacking.
  • Another participant requests clarification on what constitutes a 'variable mass system'.
  • Examples of variable mass systems provided include rockets and train cars leaking water.
  • A participant suggests that an equation for energy flux can be established, relating the rates of work and energy loss to the change in kinetic energy of the system.
  • One participant notes that the work-energy theorem applies to all particles in the system, including those that have exited, such as exhaust gases or leaked water, but acknowledges the generality of this remark.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion does not reach a consensus on the mathematical derivation of the work-energy theorem for variable mass systems, and multiple viewpoints regarding its application and examples remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the completeness of their examples and the general applicability of the work-energy theorem in variable mass scenarios.

MuIotaTau
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How do we know that the work-energy theorem holds for variable mass systems? Or rather, since I'm sure that we can at least know it to be true experimentally, what is the mathematical basis for the work-energy theorem? I know for fixed mass systems, a rather simple derivation comes from integration Newton's second law over an infinitesimal displacement, but I've never seen any sort of derivation of the relationship for variable mass systems, only the assumption that it holds. So purely out of curiosity, does any such demonstration exist?
 
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Could you please give an example of a 'variable mass system'?
 
The stereotypical examples that come to mind are a rocket, or perhaps a moving traincar leaking water.
 
Well, you can set up an equation for the energy flux, obviously, where the rates of work (i.e power transferred) on the system combined with the rate by which energy leaves the system bymeans of energy carrying material will equal the rate of change of the kinetic energy in the system.
 
Thank you for this clarification. The work-energy theorem will apply to all the particles in the system, provided that you enlarge your system to include not just the particles in the rocket or the train car, but those that have left it (exhaust gases, leaked water). I suspect this is too general a remark to be of much use. I'll try and come up with something more specific, but let's hope someone else supplies what you want sooner than I will.
 
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