Work life balance. and if you're female?

[Panda]

This is a subject close to my heart but from the otherside.

When my partner and I decided to start a family we both wanted to be there for him/her pretty much full time until he started school and then there for him out of school hours until he was in his eatrly teens and could look after himself.

We both earn almost the same so there was no financial motive to who would stay at home. I am pretty bored with my job as a rocket scientist and the other half quite liked her project management job, so it was quite clear that after the initial phase where I was not fully equiped to do the looking after bit, I would take a break from work, and take the opportunity to retrain as a beach bum. All nice and organised as you would expect between two professionals.

Then a baby arrives, and the whole hormone thing cuts in. Suddenly all the carefully laid plans are thrown out of the window and the prospect of ever going back to work is pie in the sky. To be honest, seeing my plans to be a proffesional beach bum thrown out the window and the prospect of spending the next 30 years stuck in my cubicle didn't please me, but I in truth had little say when the hormones were talking.

In the end we have compromised, mainly because our balanced financial situation means that our income has been halved and we couldn't afford both food and alcohol, so I was beginning to starve. I do three days a week, and her now out of doors does three days a week, and little one gets granny care for a day.

So in truth, the reason why so many women stay at home is not necessarily due to a logical choice they made before having kids, your priorities seriously change, and it is not just the women who have to relook at their lives.

I'm lucky that our company allows us to be flexible both in hours and days and that our jobs could be rehashed such that with our skills and experience it will not affect our prospects as we had both recently regraded and are a long way from the next level.

I would say as a warning that my sister post divorce decided to concentrate on her carrear, and has done well moving from PA to Financial Manager in a city bank, but she hit 40 and has no kids and is really feeling that clock ticking hard, esspecially as her little brother now has a family.

I would recommend that you hold off the kid thing until you are secure in your work place, but set an alarm clock for 30-35 to seriously consider where you want to be in your old age, a retired proffessor or a grandmother.

 

[Astronuc]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how you can be a decent parent, spouse, or whatever if you are working 15 hours a day.

If 15hrs a day (essentially 2/3's - and does that included getting to and from work) was the norm - I'd quit.


Generally speaking -

Marriage is a partnership (or it should be).

Parenting is shared responsibility (or it should be).

Don't expect something from another that one does not expect of oneself.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Amen. My point was that working 15 hour days is bad for men *and* women equally...

 

[TMFKAN64]

How is it wrong to work much?

Work is not everything in life. At least I don't think it should be...

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

Find yourself a real dumb guy, one that is really into nascar and backyard fishing that is in enthralled by your research and the subject you are studying and convince him to become a stay-at-home dad and a member of the 'team'. The team will consist of you researching and making a living while he stays at home taking care of the kids and making sure the house is in order. He will have dinner for you when you get home and then you can spend your evenings with your family.

Problem solved.

<3

In all honesty, I would focus on your career now and then make a decision regarding children later. Remember, should you decide you want to start a family, you can always take a leave from school. It's difficult to make those sorts of plans for the future and since I am a male, I can't give you very applicable advice.

 

[ranger]

Find yourself a real dumb guy, one that is really into nascar and backyard fishing that is in enthralled by your research and the subject you are studying and convince him to become a stay-at-home dad and a member of the 'team'. The team will consist of you researching and making a living while he stays at home taking care of the kids and making sure the house is in order. He will have dinner for you when you get home and then you can spend your evenings with your family.

Problem solved.

<3

I wish her luck in finding guy like that.

 

[arunma]

so...
I'm a woman, I study physics, I love science and I get freakishly excited at the prospect of doing research. I am seriously considering it as a career. But then, I look around and damn, the vast majority of my professors are male. They work a lot, do exciting research, and most manage to have kids and a wife at home.
I see our few female physics professors and, yeah, they're all childless.
My uncle is a University prof, as is another distant relative: they both have very talented wives, who sacrificed their own career in order to have a family.
And I wonder, is this even possible for me? Can I have a career in science AND a family? Should I dump my boyfriend (who’s considering staying in research himself) for a man who’s happy to be a stay at home dad?

I know you asked for opinions from the old guys, but I thought you might be interested in this. I'm not sure that your department is entirely representative of the physics community. Yes, there's an unfortunate gender disparity, but the few female professors in the department where I did my undergrad all had children. In fact, one of them had a son who ended up being a grad student in the same department. So you might not be getting the whole story by looking at a single department.

 

[Moonbear]

I just saw this thread a bit late, so please pardon if I say things that have already been said. I haven't read through all the other replies yet.

It certainly CAN be done, to have a family, including children, and be successful in science. What you need to decide, along with your partner, is HOW you will do it. I've been asked this question before, by students and post-docs, especially by those ready to have children who are trying to figure out when. From what I've observed, the easiest time to start with a young family is during your post-doc years. You're just way too stressed while in grad school to juggle it all, IMO (that is, if you're not so stressed you can't get pregnant anyway). By the time you start a tenure-track position, you're dealing again with a few high-stress years while productivity in the lab needs to be high to earn tenure. But, during your post-doc, while you need to be productive, you can also relax a bit and if need be, take a few extra years doing a post-doc if small children slow you down a bit, and it won't hurt you long-term. That means by the time you take on a faculty appointment, the children a just a bit older, and can more easily be signed up for daycare or left with babysitters now and then if you have an especially busy period.

But, then again, life doesn't always happen the way we want it. You may find yourself pregnant while still in grad school, or the right guy might not come along until you're well past your post-doc years.

A well-established woman in my field gave a talk to the "trainees" back when I was still a post-doc, and it was primarily about balancing career and personal lives. When asked how she managed to do it all, her answer was, "If it's important, it'll get done." I repeat this often to other students, because I think it's great advice. As she went on to explain, if you want to make time for your children, you will, even if it means taking work home and working late into the night after the kids have gone to bed. A lot of things won't get done, and you just have to accept that some things are not that important to worry about when you run out of time for everything. You might not have the tidiest house in the neighborhood, for example.

A supportive spouse is certainly important. You can't do it alone. But, don't discount your current boyfriend just because he plans a research career too. One thing about research is that it is a flexible career. Some days you're not that flexible, but most days, you can set your own hours. Want to attend the kids' soccer games, you can leave early and attend, then take them home, eat dinner as a family, and then return to work. A spouse who takes his turn at picking up the kids and making dinners and spending a day home when the kids are sick is important.

 

[physarrista]

Hey everybody, thanks for all your comments, thoughts and different perspectives. It helped me to set my mind at ease a bit.
I will most likely go on and apply for a Phd program this year, no matter what.

Thanks again.

Oh yeah, and I have no intentions of leaving my boyfriend, as he is a great guy, I was just exagerating for the sake of the argument.

 

[bkvitha]

I can give you one great example...of a women who can balance both her science career and her whole family.

MY MOTHER...THE SUPERMOM!

She drives my brothers and I to school, classes and so on.
She spends time with all her four children atleast an hour everyday.Helps me out with my homework.
Cooks whenever she can and its a must for her on Sundays.DOes her gardening as a hobbie.
We have a maid though...but keeping one is equally an hassel...my mom has to be on her feet keeping an eye on her too...
She's the best place to go for comforting and also the last music you want to hear when you do something wrong...
And most of all
she still has time and care to look after her patients and be there at the clinic when she is needed. Not to boast, but she's one of the best physicians around. :)
But she had to give up her opputunity to pursue her ambition to become a cardiac surgeon in the US(it is very tough for a Malaysian to do any sort of speaciality courses in the US--and she is one of the very few who managed to get in-even till now---she also was in Who's Who back in the 70's when she was a Med student) when my eldest brother was born.
So she had to sacrifice a little for a lot more...my family and I.
Credit has to be given to my dad too for supporting her and the rest of us.

SO...
I guess its all up to you.
Where there's a will, there's certainly a way...

One tough crossroad this is...and I think i will be in your shoes in a couple of years time! :(
For now i shall finish enjoying my teen hood!

YEY
Al the best , ya!

 

[Panda]

After a week of a baby exploding from both ends and no more than 3 hours sleeps, sod work life balance, concentrate on your career... I'm actually glad it is my day to go to work, I need sleep :-(

 

[Rocket_guy]

so...
I'm a woman, I study physics, I love science and I get freakishly excited at the prospect of doing research. I am seriously considering it as a career. But then, I look around and damn, the vast majority of my professors are male. They work a lot, do exciting research, and most manage to have kids and a wife at home.
I see our few female physics professors and, yeah, they're all childless.
My uncle is a University prof, as is another distant relative: they both have very talented wives, who sacrificed their own career in order to have a family.
And I wonder, is this even possible for me? Can I have a career in science AND a family? Should I dump my boyfriend (who’s considering staying in research himself) for a man who’s happy to be a stay at home dad?

I once met a woman prof (in psychology) who told me it’s either kids or science for women. Not both. How can a woman work 15 hour days consistently in order to stay competitive with her male colleagues and have a family at the same time, while everybody around her has a spouse who’s busy caring for the family life.

I really don’t know, what my question is, I guess I’m just asking for input, opinions and experiences from older members. I’m at a point in my life where I’m starting to weight my options and damn, I really feel discouraged to stay in research.


**Edit: I should probably add, that I will refuse to argue over the brain capabilities of girls in physics or any such nonsense.**

Well .. I am just a guy still in my bachelors and I ain't hold any research activity ( apart being the backyard scientist!..if it counts anywhere ..) but as I read ur post, a thought came in my mind and I remembered the story once I read about " Marie curie and her husband" and then a smile! Obviously the life may give u a hard time by asking u to make choices, in case it does, just do what will make u happy..and never regret!
~~rest all edited~~ maybe am young enough to talk about relationships ~~
Just 2 cents I had to give ..

 

[Math Is Hard]

After a week of a baby exploding from both ends and no more than 3 hours sleeps, sod work life balance, concentrate on your career... I'm actually glad it is my day to go to work, I need sleep :-(

sounds exactly like half the guys I work with. Every now and then I snap a picture of them "O-faced" at the desk. :zzz: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (no blackmail intended - it's just funny)

 

[Math Is Hard]

I can give you one great example...of a women who can balance both her science career and her whole family.

MY MOTHER...THE SUPERMOM!

She drives my brothers and I to school, classes and so on.
She spends time with all her four children atleast an hour everyday.Helps me out with my homework.
Cooks whenever she can and its a must for her on Sundays.DOes her gardening as a hobbie.
We have a maid though...but keeping one is equally an hassel...my mom has to be on her feet keeping an eye on her too...
She's the best place to go for comforting and also the last music you want to hear when you do something wrong...
And most of all
she still has time and care to look after her patients and be there at the clinic when she is needed. Not to boast, but she's one of the best physicians around. :)
But she had to give up her opputunity to pursue her ambition to become a cardiac surgeon in the US(it is very tough for a Malaysian to do any sort of speaciality courses in the US--and she is one of the very few who managed to get in-even till now---she also was in Who's Who back in the 70's when she was a Med student) when my eldest brother was born.
So she had to sacrifice a little for a lot more...my family and I.
Credit has to be given to my dad too for supporting her and the rest of us.

SO...
I guess its all up to you.
Where there's a will, there's certainly a way...

One tough crossroad this is...and I think i will be in your shoes in a couple of years time! :(
For now i shall finish enjoying my teen hood!

YEY
Al the best , ya!

Awwwrrr! That's so sweet! Always be good to your mama!