Would Mathematical Physics benefit me?

[jimmyly]

Hello everyone,

i am just wondering if a mathematical physics honours degree would benefit me more if i am wanting to get into theoretical astrophysics or theoretical high energy physics afterwards for my graduate studies? Or should i just stick with a physics honours degree?

i'm assuming it will benefit me more because a mathematical physics degree conatains the same amount required for a physics degree just a lot more math courses but that is just what i think with no university experience yet. any advice will help! thanks!

 

[jimmyly]

Anyone?

 

[Jorriss]

I did not know schools offer degrees in mathematical physics. How does this differ from a pure physics degree?

 

[jimmyly]

Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, Canada http://students.sfu.ca/calendar/physics/mathematical-phys-hon.html

the physics courses are all the same as regular physics honors but with an addition of 1 or 2 more math courses/semester on top of the math courses required for physics honors.

i'm curious to know if the extra math will give me more to offer or i should say more of an advantage for when i go into my graduate studies. I'm thinking theoretical astrophyics

 

[Timo]

"More to offer" than what? No extra anything? Probably. Extra physics? Probably not.

 

[jimmyly]

"More to offer" than what? No extra anything? Probably. Extra physics? Probably not.

sorry let me rephrase. would i as a theoretical physicist or astrophysicist in the future, benefit from a mathematical physics degree more or just physics degree? Will the extra math courses be beneficial in the fields of theoretical astrophysics/cosmology or just theoretical physics in general? Thanks for the replies!

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

There are courses that look helpful. Are they helpful for graduate admission? Probably not (I wouldn't know). People studying physics should at least know:

Single Variable, Multivariable, and Vector Calculus
Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations
Linear Algebra

Other classes that would be helpful are Complex Analysis, Numerical Methods, and Statistics. That mathematical physics degree plan looks like the math + physics degree common at most schools. Just with a different name. :P

 

[jimmyly]

There are courses that look helpful. Are they helpful for graduate admission? Probably not (I wouldn't know). People studying physics should at least know:

Single Variable, Multivariable, and Vector Calculus
Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations
Linear Algebra

Other classes that would be helpful are Complex Analysis, Numerical Methods, and Statistics. That mathematical physics degree plan looks like the math + physics degree common at most schools. Just with a different name. :P

Thank you for the reply! I am not too worried about if it will help with graduate admission. I am more interested to know if mathematical physics will give me a better foundation for theoretical physics or astrophysics for graduate school. I know the more math i know, the better. But are the extra math courses that relevant to what i want to get into? The main reason i am in this dilemma is because i want everything i can get my hands on to help me pursue a successful career as a scientist.

 

[Nano-Passion]

That looks like a solid curriculum, I would do it. The question is, why not? What downsides are there for doing this degree, which just seems to be a few more math classes?

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

The "Introduction to Analysis I + II" courses might not be directly helpful but they might be a prereq for another useful course. For example, a course in Applied Mathematics at my university would require a first semester in analysis. The course covers advanced math methods in physics here, but it is most likely different at your place. I'm sure the course on dynamical systems does, though. Other than that, everything else looks solid.

Have you been assigned a faculty advisor/mentor yet? They would know more about the curriculum they set up.

 

[jimmyly]

That looks like a solid curriculum, I would do it. The question is, why not? What downsides are there for doing this degree, which just seems to be a few more math classes?

that is basically my perspective as well. But i have people telling me to focus on physics because that's more important and if i major in mathematical physics i will have to choose between math courses or physics courses if the times clash. Also, some say that the math i will be learning won't have any relationship with physics. So i wanted to get more insight from here. thanks for the post!

 

[jimmyly]

The "Introduction to Analysis I + II" courses might not be directly helpful but they might be a prereq for another useful course. For example, a course in Applied Mathematics at my university would require a first semester in analysis. The course covers advanced math methods in physics here, but it is most likely different at your place. I'm sure the course on dynamical systems does, though. Other than that, everything else looks solid.

Have you been assigned a faculty advisor/mentor yet? They would know more about the curriculum they set up.

hey thanks for the reply! i actually had another thread and someone who actually attended SFU told me for their 3rd and 4th year the math and physics courses clashed so he just chose physics instead(some courses do clash when i checked). I'm not concerned with the fact that it will maybe take an extra semester or two to complete my degree but what really got me thinking is if the extra semester or two is really worth it. i am, after all, wanting to pursue a career in physics, so its just been messing with my mind for awhile now :S

 

[Nano-Passion]

that is basically my perspective as well. But i have people telling me to focus on physics because that's more important and if i major in mathematical physics i will have to choose between math courses or physics courses if the times clash. Also, some say that the math i will be learning won't have any relationship with physics. So i wanted to get more insight from here. thanks for the post!

Well, if you do theoretical physics -- your not always so sure what mathematics might be relevant in the future. There is a theoretical physicist in the institute of theoretical physics (she is quite pretty :D) who is using group theory to understand space. Sounds weird but that is what happens, every once in a while some mathematics is introduced into a particular field. If you do theory, it might help to take some of the extra math classes to build up your comfort level in math. But some classes are more essential to others and some classes have more potential for use than others, so it all depends. Most classes might very well be quite useless, so it is up to you.

 

[jimmyly]

Well, if you do theoretical physics -- your not always so sure what mathematics might be relevant in the future. There is a theoretical physicist (she is quite pretty :D) who is using group theory to understand space. Sounds weird but that is what happens, every once in a while some mathematics is introduced into a particular field. If you do theory, it might help to take some of the extra math classes to build up your comfort level in math. But some classes are more essential to others and some classes have more potential for use than others, so it all depends. Most classes might very well be quite useless, so it is up to you.

thanks for the reply! i really appreciate it. I THINK i will go through with it. I'm going to talk to some professors and advisors

 

[jimmyly]

Well, if you do theoretical physics -- your not always so sure what mathematics might be relevant in the future. There is a theoretical physicist (she is quite pretty :D) who is using group theory to understand space. Sounds weird but that is what happens, every once in a while some mathematics is introduced into a particular field. If you do theory, it might help to take some of the extra math classes to build up your comfort level in math. But some classes are more essential to others and some classes have more potential for use than others, so it all depends. Most classes might very well be quite useless, so it is up to you.

thanks for the reply! i really appreciate it. I THINK i will go through with it. I'm going to talk to some professors and advisors

 

[Nano-Passion]

I'm assuming the only difference is in math?

Upper Division Requirements
Students complete a minimum total of 58 units, including all of
MACM 316-3 Numerical Analysis I
MATH 310-3 Introduction to Ordinary Differential Equations
MATH 320-3 Introduction to Analysis II
MATH 322-3 Complex Variables
MATH 418-3 Partial Differential Equations
and one of
MATH 419-3 Linear Analysis
MATH 424-3 Complex Analysis
MATH 425-3 Real Analysis
and one of
MATH 461-3 Continuous Mathematical Models
MATH 462-3 Fluid Dynamics
MATH 495-3 Selected Topics in Applied Mathematics
and one of
MACM 401-3 Introduction to Computer Algebra
MACM 416-3 Numerical Analysis II
MATH 467-3 Dynamical Systems

All of this seems very reasonable, you have some very reasonable choices and the flexibility is quite good.

 

[jimmyly]

I'm assuming the only difference is in math?



All of this seems very reasonable, you have some very reasonable choices and the flexibility is quite good.

yes i do have a lot to choose from. Another thing that has just caught my attention is won't extra math courses mean taking the places of physics courses :( man this is driving me nuts...

 

[Nano-Passion]

yes i do have a lot to choose from. Another thing that has just caught my attention is won't extra math courses mean taking the places of physics courses :( man this is driving me nuts...

Well that is true, it also might not leave you the chance of taking graduate classes if you were not planning on it. Life seems to be complex in every avenue. If only things were more simple huh?

What physics courses would you able to take if you were not a mathematical physics major?

 

[jimmyly]

Well that is true, it also might not leave you the chance of taking graduate classes if you were not planning on it. Life seems to be complex in every avenue. If only things were more simple huh?

What physics courses would you able to take if you were not ao mathematical physics major?

I do also want to take graduate classes haha. I want to take astrophysics and as much physics as i can. Btw i plan on attending september 2013 i like to plan ahead...

 

[Nano-Passion]

I do also want to take graduate classes haha. I want to take astrophysics and as much physics as i can. Btw i plan on attending september 2013 i like to plan ahead...

One must make tough decisions in limited time and resources. It isn't so cut and clear whether you should take the mathematical physics route or not. What I plan to do is to take the physics route, but to also add in some extra classes in math, physics, or computer science. It basically leaves me with the flexibility that I want without having the "mathematical physics" name to my degree. Maybe you can emulate that.

You mean September 2012 right? And are you an incoming freshman or a transfer student?

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

I do also want to take graduate classes haha. I want to take astrophysics and as much physics as i can. Btw i plan on attending september 2013 i like to plan ahead...

Your plans will probably change; mine did. The classes I wanted to take in the future were different both my first and second years. Going into my third year it's different yet again. At one time I wanted to take topology, second semester abstract algebra, numerical analysis, and other courses. Now I do not want to take any of the courses I mentioned. While I would have liked to take another course in algebra, I realized I'd rather take another physics class in place of that. It takes a bit of time and thinking especially since your interests might change as you are exposed to more stuff.

You might find it helpful to make a priority list if things don't work out. For example, Spring 2013 I want to take Grad-level Linear Algebra, but if that doesn't fit my schedule I'll take a second semester in statistics & probability if that doesn't conflict with anything. If so, I'll just take some other class that interests whether it's in math, physics, or something unrelated.

 

[jimmyly]

One must make tough decisions in limited time and resources. It isn't so cut and clear whether you should take the mathematical physics route or not. What I plan to do is to take the physics route, but to also add in some extra classes in math, physics, or computer science. It basically leaves me with the flexibility that I want without having the "mathematical physics" name to my degree. Maybe you can emulate that.

You mean September 2012 right? And are you an incoming freshman or a transfer student?

yeah that's what i am thinking now. take the physics route and take extra classes in the three. No i mean 2013 haha. i live in Canada and i am currently taking high school grade 12 classes because i didn't take then when i was in high school(i had a totally different mindset back then, won't get into it) so i have to upgrade now to meet the entrance requirements. i am also going for the entrance scholarship which i need over 91% avg($3500) or 95%avg($5000) i am about 92% right now so i want to focus this year on not only bringing up my avg for the scholarship but learning and mastering the foundations in math and physics.I find these classes a breeze so i am teaching myself calculus and physics at a university level.

 

[jimmyly]

Your plans will probably change; mine did. The classes I wanted to take in the future were different both my first and second years. Going into my third year it's different yet again. At one time I wanted to take topology, second semester abstract algebra, numerical analysis, and other courses. Now I do not want to take any of the courses I mentioned. While I would have liked to take another course in algebra, I realized I'd rather take another physics class in place of that. It takes a bit of time and thinking especially since your interests might change as you are exposed to more stuff.

You might find it helpful to make a priority list if things don't work out. For example, Spring 2013 I want to take Grad-level Linear Algebra, but if that doesn't fit my schedule I'll take a second semester in statistics & probability if that doesn't conflict with anything. If so, I'll just take some other class that interests whether it's in math, physics, or something unrelated.

that is a really good idea haha thanks a lot!

 

[Nano-Passion]

yeah that's what i am thinking now. take the physics route and take extra classes in the three. No i mean 2013 haha. i live in Canada and i am currently taking high school grade 12 classes because i didn't take then when i was in high school(i had a totally different mindset back then, won't get into it) so i have to upgrade now to meet the entrance requirements. i am also going for the entrance scholarship which i need over 91% avg($3500) or 95%avg($5000) i am about 92% right now so i want to focus this year on not only bringing up my avg for the scholarship but learning and mastering the foundations in math and physics.I find these classes a breeze so i am teaching myself calculus and physics at a university level.

Your really planning ahead. Well, that is a good thing.

And I can understand that you had a different mindset back then. People change. Before all I used to do was play video games and chill with friends, never did any homework, or even pay attention in class. Boy did I change..

 

[starland]

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[CAF123]

I had a very similar dilemma to you last year: Mathematical Physics or Physics?
I emailed the university and spoke to a theoretical particle physicist (who is now my director of studies) and he suggested that if you definitely want to do theoretical work, do the Math Phys degree, if you prefer experiemental side of things, do Physics and if you want to keep your options open, perhaps start on the Math Phys degree and you could transfer over if things change.

I went with his advice and started the Math Phys degree programme and a year on, I haven't regretted a thing. In my second semester after Christmas, I thought I might worry since Math Phys replaced a nice introductory Physics course on thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, diffraction physics, nuclear physics,astroparticle physics etc.. in Physics with a pure mathematics course in Math Phys.

However, I have now finished first year and I believe the extra mathematics I learned will put me in good stead for future years. What's more, I am currently self-studying the introductory course I talked about above and have nearly finished it without too much bother.

 

[jimmyly]

Your really planning ahead. Well, that is a good thing.

And I can understand that you had a different mindset back then. People change. Before all I used to do was play video games and chill with friends, never did any homework, or even pay attention in class. Boy did I change..

yeah in high school all i did was chase girls,party, and never did homework. i just got my math test back yesterday and got 98% and i still felt it wasn't good enough. i have never gotten an A through out my high school years except for in P.E. i am really really motivated now that's why i am planning ahead hahaa

 

[jimmyly]

I had a very similar dilemma to you last year: Mathematical Physics or Physics?
I emailed the university and spoke to a theoretical particle physicist (who is now my director of studies) and he suggested that if you definitely want to do theoretical work, do the Math Phys degree, if you prefer experiemental side of things, do Physics and if you want to keep your options open, perhaps start on the Math Phys degree and you could transfer over if things change.

I went with his advice and started the Math Phys degree programme and a year on, I haven't regretted a thing. In my second semester after Christmas, I thought I might worry since Math Phys replaced a nice introductory Physics course on thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, diffraction physics, nuclear physics,astroparticle physics etc.. in Physics with a pure mathematics course in Math Phys.

However, I have now finished first year and I believe the extra mathematics I learned will put me in good stead for future years. What's more, I am currently self-studying the introductory course I talked about above and have nearly finished it without too much bother.

thank you for sharing! that is very helpful. i will probably email the few theoretical astrophysicists at my school and see what their insights are. thanks again!

 

[Nano-Passion]

I had a very similar dilemma to you last year: Mathematical Physics or Physics?
I emailed the university and spoke to a theoretical particle physicist (who is now my director of studies) and he suggested that if you definitely want to do theoretical work, do the Math Phys degree, if you prefer experiemental side of things, do Physics and if you want to keep your options open, perhaps start on the Math Phys degree and you could transfer over if things change.

I went with his advice and started the Math Phys degree programme and a year on, I haven't regretted a thing. In my second semester after Christmas, I thought I might worry since Math Phys replaced a nice introductory Physics course on thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, diffraction physics, nuclear physics,astroparticle physics etc.. in Physics with a pure mathematics course in Math Phys.

However, I have now finished first year and I believe the extra mathematics I learned will put me in good stead for future years. What's more, I am currently self-studying the introductory course I talked about above and have nearly finished it without too much bother.

But then your also slowly shoveling yourself a pit hole. It is a double-edged sword, I think it is important to be well-rounded so that you don't run in the unemployment route. The sword is sharp on both sides, it can help you, or it can certainly cut you.

I emailed a theoretical physicist and an administrator in physics from Rutgers before, they told me that they want their students to diversify themselves and often dislike the students who are very pigeon-holed in their physics perspective. And I think they might have good reason for that too -- unemployment in theoretical physics is a very real factor.

yeah in high school all i did was chase girls,party, and never did homework. i just got my math test back yesterday and got 98% and i still felt it wasn't good enough. i have never gotten an A through out my high school years except for in P.E. i am really really motivated now that's why i am planning ahead hahaa

Yep, sounds exactly like me-- except for the party part. I just used to use myspace for girls lmao and occasionally in real life.

I also went through a bout of perfectionism as well, as you progress you will see that a 100 in college doesn't really mean much though.