Would you hire a graduate of Honestrosewater University?

[honestrosewater]

I haven't looked into the technical requirements of this yet, but I wonder what it might be worth even if I could do it. Basically, I am thinking of starting my own college so that I can award myself a degree from it.

Some explanation...

I dropped out of high school almost 9 years ago, on my 16^th birthday. I got a job as a waitress, and all of my jobs since have been in hospitality. I have educated myself independently in the meantime. I need to get a job that doesn't suck the life out of me. I would like to get one related to my long-term goal of actually having a career in mathematical/computational linguistics (or perhaps "linguistic mathematics"). For example, such a career would keep me programming, or would at least benefit a lot from it, so that is one possibility.

As I'm working on my resume, I don't know how to include anything about my independent education, which I think is probably the equivalent of a bachelor's degree from a rather demanding school -- and then some. This is a huge asset (and accomplishment) to not include in a resume!

(I also have reached the point where I am getting into graduate-level work that I cannot do well enough by myself anymore. So I also want to get into grad school, and having to start as a freshman somewhere seems like a huge waste, as enjoyable as it might be.)

If it turns out to be possible for me to technically start my own college (putting aside accreditation for now), what would you think if you saw a resume from someone who had done this, educated themselves and started their own school as a step towards "proving" by the rules that they had done so?

 

[Mk]

I'm all for it! You're so smart and don't deserve to be ignored for lack of credentials. I don't know exactly what you're thinking of doing though.

 

[brewnog]

Educating yourself is well and good, I'd be more likely to take you seriously if you'd had that education qualified by formal assessment alongside others with similar knowledge and experience, in order to demonstrate that the self-administered education was no worse than a traditional one.

Other than that, I'd have no problems with someone who'd educated themselves.

 

[Mk]

Why did you drop out of high school?

 

[chroot]

The number of people who are competent to educate themselves to the level expected of a university is vanishingly small. Unfortunately, this means that even if you really have accomplished it, no one will believe you.

I must also confess that hearing someone named Joe say he went to "Joe University" would pretty much make me cringe.

You also stand essentially no chance of being admitted to graduate school (anywhere) without an undergraduate degree -- even if you ace the GRE and any other standardized tests. If you are capable of publishing in peer-reviewed journals, you might get in somewhere, but they'll probably still make you take a load of undergraduate classes just to make absolutely sure you're prepared.

If you want my honest advice... you should just take on $40k of student loan debt (if you must) and go full-time to a standard four-year university. Ask to take "credit by exam" for every class they'll permit it, and get it over with ASAP.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

Haha, thanks, Mk.

I should clarify that I'm not talking about doing anything fraudulent or deceptive here. I really just want some way for people to recognize the work that I have done.

On a good day, I test in the top 1%, but I have consistently been in the top 2% throughout school, even at the times that I wasn't trying very hard. The last standardized test that I took was my GED, and I scored in the top 1% nationally. That was a few years ago, and I have only gotten better. I was also in all of the special and advanced classes, a straight-A student, etc. before I left school (which was a couple of years before I officially dropped out). I don't have any serious doubts that I could pull this off if it's possible.

I would expect to take several tests to get some student stats for my college. And if I'm the only student, the school's stats should be pretty good.

 

[honestrosewater]

Why did you drop out of high school?

Problems at home, mainly. But the school was also not working for me, and I failed all of my classes automatically after nine, or whatever, absences in a term. They also kept putting me in classes that I had already taken. (I was expelled from normal school, went to a school for bad kids, and then returned to normal school.)

 

[honestrosewater]

If you want my honest advice... you should just take on $40k of student loan debt (if you must) and go full-time to a standard four-year university. Ask to take "credit by exam" for every class they'll permit it, and get it over with ASAP.

Yes, I consider this my next (last) option.

Is there anything that would allay your concerns? Say, if I could get some decent accreditation? I am of course willing to put some serious work into this, if it turns out to be worth doing. I have already put a lot of work into my education, and this part might even be relatively easy.

(P.S. I was joking about the name.)

 

[Cyrus]

Why don't you go to a community college and transfer to a 4-year univeresity?

You can do it!

 

[loseyourname]

If you really can't or just don't want to go to an accredited university, I'd recommend you demonstrate your abilities in some public forum. I don't mean here, but if you want to be a programmer, do some programming. Solve a problem that hasn't been solved. I recall you saying you wished to write a poet program. You're probably not going to be able to do that, but whatever you can do would help. I at least know of people writing video games with no formal education, that were hired simply because they had demonstrated their ability by writing games that some headhunter found. A degree proves that you know something, but it isn't the only way to prove it.

That's not the only reason employers like to see a degree, though. It also shows that you can make a committment and stick to it for several years, that's you've learned how to conduct research and prepare written and oral reports, that you know how to work both alone and in groups, that you can take direction, sit quietly for hours at a time without going stir-crazy, and many other things that are considered desirable traits when you exit the service industry.

 

[honestrosewater]

Why don't you go to a community college and transfer to a 4-year univeresity?

Because I would prefer to not spend the time and energy redoing things that I have already done.

I'm assuming that I already have the education. I just need an acceptable form of proof.

 

[Cyrus]

Because I would prefer to not spend the time and energy redoing things that I have already done.

I'm assuming that I already have the education. I just need an acceptable form of proof.

Ah, I see. You should be able to test out as Warren said then.

 

[chroot]

Is there anything that would allay your concerns?

Well, I'm just biased by my own experiences.

I have an undergraduate degree in a difficult field, computer engineering, from one of the top 10 or 15 best schools in the nation. I'm currently working on a graduate degree at a prestigious university (number 2 or 3 in the world). Looking back on it all, I can say with absolute confidence that I could never have taught myself even half of it to the standards I was (am) held.

Even taking 15-17 units in undergraduate school meant I was working so feverishly that I could barely sleep at night. There were often assignments due in various classes every day of the week. I spent hours and hours in labs. There's no way that a person studying on their own, part time, could ever hold themselves to the same grindstone.

My homework assignments in graduate school are routinely absolutely bewildering when I first get them. They force me to stay up night after night, agonizing and fighting with them. Somehow, magically, I manage to almost always turn them in on time. I would never have the self-discipline to force myself to work this hard on anything.

Even more damning are my repeated attempts in the direction of becoming a professional physicist (experimentalist). After undergrad school, I decided I wanted to help develop physics experiments. I studied everything I could find. I read all the textbooks used in the undergraduate courses, and did most of the problems in the books to a standard that I felt was adequate. I sought the advice of professors at various schools, and did what they told me to do.

I then sat for the GRE Physics exam, and, well, bombed it pretty badly. I answered an appropriate number of questions, but I guess I mostly fell for the "sucker answers." I have since realized that my attempts at self-education were, well, laughably poor in the end. I know this because I have since attended some physics undergraduate classes at a cheap local state university, and am pretty amazed at just how poorly I understood the material, even if was able to do the algebra to get the right answers to some homework problems.

So, I have to ask you: have you taken the GRE? Have you taken any of the GRE subject exams relevant to your studies? I think you should really take these before you even begin to consider your self-study the equivalent of a real four-year degree.

- Warren

 

[turbo]

It's hard to say how best to address this. I dropped out of college before I got a degree (double major in English Lit and Philosophy after I was seduced from the "dark side" - started in Chem Eng) and went to work in construction to earn a steady living. I was pulled into Pulp and Paper based on the Chem Eng. stuff on my resume, and did production work for 10 years and did some consulting work for another 10 years or so - without a degree. I taught myself programming and wrote stand-alone applications running under dBase and FoxBase and became the network administrator for a very large opthalmic practice with lots of field offices. Because of health problems (asthma, migraines, and more with exposure to perfumes) I then went to work for an auctioneer, administering the network and running on-line auctions. When the person heading up the firearms division quit, he forced the job on me (I was the only employee with a good knowledge of firearms and militaria) and in 4 years, I took that division from grossing less than $4M/yr to over $15M/yr, running the highest-grossing firearms auctions in the world. Sometimes, you've got to aim high, start small, and show a track record that makes the head-hunters put your number on the hot list. Ability sells - degrees/certificates are often no better than attendance records.

 

[honestrosewater]

If you really can't or just don't want to go to an accredited university, I'd recommend you demonstrate your abilities in some public forum. I don't mean here, but if you want to be a programmer, do some programming. Solve a problem that hasn't been solved.

I have done some programming already, and I have been keeping an eye out for open-source projects that I might be able to contribute to. But this doesn't seem very promising.

Also, doing real research in linguistics is not something that I think is feasible on my own. Modern linguistics is a young and rapidly-changing field. Just getting and staying caught up on the literature in an area and finding a problem that needs to be solved is quite a feat -- and a lot of work is actually done by groups rather than individuals -- and it's something that I don't think I can do on my own at this point.

Ah, I see. You should be able to test out as Warren said then.

I have looked at several places, and the ones that award credit for prior learning have limits. I can't test-out a 4-year degree. I can't even test-out a 2-year one.

 

[chroot]

I'm assuming that I already have the education. I just need an acceptable form of proof.

I suggest sitting for the GRE and at least one GRE subject exam.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

I have looked at several places, and the ones that award credit for prior learning have limits. I can't test-out a 4-year degree. I can't even test-out a 2-year one.

You can probably expect to test out of maybe a year's worth of classes, no more.

The problem with all of this is that only person who really knows what you've learned -- you -- is not qualified to say it's equivalent to a four-year degree.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

I suggest sitting for the GRE and at least one GRE subject exam.

Yeah, I've looked at the GRE tests some but not much yet. It's on my list. I want to at least look at it anyway to get an idea of where I'm at.

I realize that I don't exactly know where I'm at. I presume that I would find out in the course of doing this if I go ahead with it.

The problem with all of this is that only person who really knows what you've learned -- you -- is not qualified to say it's equivalent to a four-year degree.

But this is why there are standards, right? Who was qualified to say that the first in any line of degrees deserved to be awarded?

 

[chroot]

Yeah, I've looked at the GRE tests some but not much yet. It's on my list. I want to at least look at it anyway to get an idea of where I'm at.

Well, if you're serious about going to graduate school, you're going to have to take it at some point anyway. It's required of all prospective students, even those who have gone the normal undergraduate route. It'll also provide you a very good diagnostic of your self-education.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, if you're serious about going to graduate school, you're going to have to take it at some point anyway. It's required of all prospective students, even those who have gone the normal undergraduate route. It'll also provide you a very good diagnostic of your self-education.

Yeah, I'm aware. I guess I should go ahead and get the ball rolling on this ASAP.

 

[turbo]

If you have marketable skills, get into the job market ASAP and make a name for yourself. If you have the talent and the initiative to succeed in the business world, you won't need a degree or any certificate on a wall.

 

[honestrosewater]

Oh, I have also considered taking a few classes at a local college to show that I can function in that environment and perhaps also get some teachers to vouch for me, so to speak.

So assuming that I am qualified and can actually do everything required to make my college at least appear to be (by ranking and whatever else) a decent college, what would you think upon seeing that it was my own college? Are you impressed? Are you suspicious? Does this do more harm than good?

 

[out of whack]

what would you think upon seeing that it was my own college? Are you impressed? Are you suspicious? Does this do more harm than good?

I would be unimpressed, suspicious, and I would surely mention it to my colleagues which would probably do you more harm than good. I cannot see any benefit in you spending time to establish something like this instead of using your time as recommended by other posters in this thread. Honestly.

 

[chroot]

what would you think upon seeing that it was my own college? Are you impressed? Are you suspicious? Does this do more harm than good?

I would be very suspicious. In fact, I really think it does more harm than good. Look at it this way: a person who really knows enough to get into graduate school has other kinds of credentials that are more meaningful, like perhaps some published papers or original research. The only reason a person would go to such lengths to "make up" a college is because that person has no other credentials.

I think it's honestly a losing battle, and you might as well just attend undergraduate school like everyone else.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

get into the job market ASAP

Right. That is what prompted this idea. If someone wanted to fund my education, I would happily spend the rest of my life in school, so going back to school is not such a horrible thing. The problem is that I need a job that allows me to actually go to school and do well.

For one thing, I have to work in management to make enough money. And you don't work 9 to 5 in restaurants. You work whenever you're needed, and you're basically on call all the time. It's also horribly draining for several reasons, the least of which is me having higher standards than almost everyone that I work with, so I end up doing other people's jobs. I realize that this stuff, and all types of stress, is present in most, if not all, jobs, but it is worse in some. And I also don't care about it one bit, and I don't see it leading me anywhere that I want to go.

 

[turbo]

For one thing, I have to work in management to make enough money.

That is not true. You have to work in a position that allows you to add value to your employer's company, and that is rarely in management or accounting. The real value in a company is added by people who know how to give the clients more consideration than the competitors do, and to do so in a way that encourages repeat business and loyalty. If your boss recognizes your efforts, you will do well. If you have a crappy boss, you may have to job-shop a bit until you find a pragmatist.

 

[cepheid]

In response to post #25, didn't chroot already put forward the suggestion of going into debt like many students? How does that sit with you?

 

[honestrosewater]

That is not true. You have to work in a position that allows you to add value to your employer's company, and that is rarely in management or accounting. The real value in a company is added by people who know how to give the clients more consideration than the competitors do, and to do so in a way that encourages repeat business and loyalty. If your boss recognizes your efforts, you will do well. If you have a crappy boss, you may have to job-shop a bit until you find a pragmatist.

To clarify, I meant that if I stayed in hospitality. No other positions pay enough. And in that case, I am the boss. My only boss is the owner. I have done this already, and I actually left because the schedule couldn't work with me going to school. You write your own schedule theoretically, but you're on salary and work whenever you need to, which is usually expected to be at least 50 hours a week. At one place, I never worked less than 70 hours, 6 days a week. My longest streak without a day off was 5 weeks. I can't do that AND do a good enough job in school.

Heh, I don't mean to sound like I'm whining or feeling sorry for myself or making excuses. I want to find the best solution. I like working hard, and I'm not looking for a way to cheat the system. I need a decent job. I just want to fully consider this option.

In response to post #25, didn't chroot already put forward the suggestion of going into debt like many students? How does that sit with you?

Yes, I might do that. But I still need a job that I can make work with going to school, i.e., a job in a different industry/area, e.g., programming or working in a library or something.

 

[chroot]

Yes, I might do that. But I still need a job that I can make work with going to school, i.e., a job in a different industry/area, e.g., programming or working in a library or something.

I don't think you understand. The point of student loans is to pay your tuition and living expenses (rent, food, etc.) while you bust your ass in school. You'd be better off living off Uncle Sam for a little while, and getting your degree done faster, than working part-time while you're in school.

By the way, you might well qualify for some massive subsidized financial aid, like grants. Have you considered filing a FAFSA just to find out?

- Warren

 

[loseyourname]

Warren's right, Rachel. I wasn't as old as you, but went to college when I was 22. I worked a bit the first two years and did my GEs at a community college because it was cheaper, but when I transferred, I lived entirely off of grants and loans and the only work I did was a few hours a week in the university writing center. That's really the fastest way to get it done and it's not the end of the world to graduate with debt. Almost everyone does.

Depending upon how much money you made in the last year, your award might be limited, but at least you're old enough to not have to list parental income. Attending a university will teach you other things, as well. You've mentioned that linguists work in groups most of the time, and that's something you've probably not done much. The social dynamics and politics are half of what you need to learn.

 

[honestrosewater]

I don't think you understand. The point of student loans is to pay your tuition and living expenses (rent, food, etc.) while you bust your ass in school.

I could get enough money for that? Hahahaha... that would be super, yes.

By the way, you might well qualify for some massive subsidized financial aid, like grants. Have you considered filing a FAFSA just to find out?

I started to a while ago, but as part of the registration, males under 27 have to sign up with the Selective Service, and females are not even allowed to... which I think is unfair and got me sidetracked the last time I started looking into that. But, yeah, if I can get enough money to go to school full-time and not have to work, that would be perfect. I will get on that right away. Hah. Wow.

 

[chroot]

I could get enough money for that? Hahahaha... that would be super, yes.

That's generally how it's supposed to work. It's unfortunate that the so-called "expected family contribution" is non-zero even for people whose parents are dead-beats and really don't help them at all. You should be old enough to be off your parents' tax returns, though, and will probably have an EFC of zero. The cheapest way to go is then to live on campus and get a meal plan through your university. You'll probably get a little spending money, too, but there's nothing quite so nice as having all your meals paid for for an entire semester. Dorm life is not exactly "cozy," but it's really a pretty incredible experience that I think everyone could benefit from socially.

I started to a while ago, but as part of the registration, males under 27 have to sign up with the Selective Service, and females are not even allowed to... which I think is unfair and got me sidetracked the last time I started looking into that.

Trust me, you don't want to be in selective service.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

That's generally how it's supposed to work.

Sweetness. I'm glad I started this thread now.

Trust me, you don't want to be in selective service.

Ideally, no. But what justification is there for discriminating between males and females? People on the list wouldn't even necessarily be drafted. I want equality all the time, not only when it happens to be beneficial. I actually started https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=114285" when I first found out about this. Wow, that was a year ago. Yipes. Time flies...

 

[chroot]

Ideally, no. But what justification is there for discriminating between males and females? People on the list wouldn't even necessarily be drafted. I actually started https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=114285" when I first found out about this. Wow, that was a year ago. Yipes. Time flies...

It's just BS anyway. Any administration that actually invoked selective service would have hell to pay. Just click the button and get on with your life. Refusing to accept financial aid and therefore spending your life in restaurant hell would not constitute a very meaningful form of protest anyway.

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

Refusing to accept financial aid and therefore spending your life in restaurant hell would not constitute a very meaningful form of protest anyway.

Yeah, I probably agree (I will have to think about it some at least, but yeah). Wow, you just made, like, my whole year, maybe my whole life. How did I not know this before? Anywho, thanks! I guess I owe you one or something.

 

[chroot]

Yeah, I probably agree (I will have to think about it some at least, but yeah). Wow, you just made, like, my whole year, maybe my whole life. How did I not know this before? Anywho, thanks! I guess I owe you one or something.

Hey, it's not just me! I honestly think you'd totally love undergrad school, and grow in ways you never thought possible. And if you're really as prepared as you say you are, you might be able to finish in record time, if you choose.

Just to be clear on one point though: if you ever think you're in danger of having to drop out because you're not making ends meet financially, call your financial aid office! Be proactive and vocal and you'll get what you need.

Another point: if the city or town where your school permits it, sell your car and get a bike. If you plan on living on campus, there's no reason to be paying for car insurance and registration and what not. Live as simply as possible (but no simpler), as Einstein would have said.

- Warren

 

[Mk]

So. Uh, why didn't we decide to just apply to normal school? Or is that what will be done now? What about before?

 

[honestrosewater]

So. Uh, why didn't we decide to just apply to normal school? Or is that what will be done now? What about before?

That's what I'll do now.

When I first left school, I thought I was going to be a writer, so I didn't need no stinking school, blah, blah. You know how dumb kids are. It wasn't until 10-09-01 that I had one of those epiphany things while reading a "day in the life" article by a cog sci grad student at MIT that I realized (a non-sucky) school was exactly where I wanted to be.

I initially was going to apply to normal school as an undergrad. So I switched to a job where I had a more regular schedule and started doing what I needed to complete my applications. There is actually a lot missing if you never attended high school, have 0 high school credits (= no grades), no teacher recommendations, etc. I actually even moved to Cambridge when I decided that MIT was where I really wanted to go (plus, Boston has almost as many schools as it has bars), but I got screwed by some perfectly friendly and clever but not entirely reliable pothead frat boys (not in that way). So I moved back to Florida, got my GED, found PF, blah, blah, you can read the rest in my biography when I become a famous cunning linguist.

So... I have been working at it. I have also been educating myself in the meantime as well, and it just happens that my self-education has progressed faster than getting everything else in place. I didn't know that I could get enough money to go to school full-time and not have to work full-time also. Making that work is hard when you have this huge "high-school dropout" stamp on your forehead.

So, yeah, stay in school, kids! Unless you want to be a writer. No, wait...

Haha, pardon my sloppy punctuation and sentence structure. I'm just so excited!111 :tongue3: :buggrin:

 

[hypnagogue]

I don't know how linguistics research works, but I would also strongly recommend trying to volunteer in a professor's research efforts if at all possible. At the very least you will get some first-hand experience with what it is like to work in the field, plus an all-important recommendation for graduate applications. In a best case scenario, given enough time and effort on your part and given a professor who is in need of that time and effort, you might have the opportunity to get your name on a paper or two.

 

[Evo]

HRW, can you get into anything other than a Junior College with a GED? I always thought regular universities required two years of junior college before they would consider someone with a GED. Have you checked out requirements?

It looks like you can get into a good state school with a GED and passing the ACT.

 

[honestrosewater]

I don't know how linguistics research works, but I would also strongly recommend trying to volunteer in a professor's research efforts if at all possible.

Ah, that is a great idea. Thanks.

It looks like you can get into a good state school with a GED and passing the ACT.

Yeah, I don't recall right now. The requirements, I think, are usually more focused on which classes you should have taken (math through calculus, two terms of foreign language, etc.), especially at the more selective schools. For example, I know that MIT doesn't even require a high school diploma. For the places where it does matter, I recall it being among the only requirements.

Also, in Florida, by passing the GED tests, you are awarded a regular high school diploma. It is just awarded by the State of Florida rather than whoever else usually awards them, the counties, I suppose. The test is called the GED, but you earn a regular diploma. Of course, they don't magically derive a transcript, extracurricular activities, and everything else, so it's mostly just a technicality, I guess. You get a class ranking, and that's about it. Anywho...

I don't know about the ACT, but I have studied for the SATs plenty a while ago. I ended up tearing my Achilles tendon the day before I was supposed to take the test, so I missed it and haven't signed up again. This was right before they changed it recently. But I prepared a lot and was expecting an 780-800 on the Langauge Arts and at least a 750 on the Math part. I did manage to get 800s on both several times before signing up for the test, but they were just practice of course. You can lose point so easily on the Math part. Blarg. I imagine I could score similarly on the ACT.

If I were depending almost entirely on aid, I imagine would probably stay in the state. I'm not sure if I'm eligible, but Florida has a nice scholarship program called Bright Futures. None of the local schools, around Tampa, have linguistics departments. But the University of Florida actually has a nice one, and they have a really cool honors program that I was really excited about at one point. Of course, I could always study math locally for a while to start since I am going to need a lot of that anyway. Plus, I loves it. :!)

Actually, there is a local college that has another special program where I can earn all of my Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences credits for an AA in just three interdisciplinary classes. It sounds super interesting. I registered there a while ago, and I've taken their placement tests already and qualified for those special classes and their honors program too. (The lady said that I actually got the highest scores she had ever seen (two perfect scores too), which I'm not sure is a good or a bad thing. I'd like to be somewhere that can really challenge me and such, but I guess I can find ways to challenge myself anyway.) So... who knows. I'm having a hard time sitting still long enough to work on this aid stuff at the moment. Yee!

 

[Surrealist]

I'll be honest. The job you describe sounds to me like a PhD level position. Anyone on these boards who has finished a PhD will tell you that it relies on 99% blood, sweat and tears... and 1% raw talent. In other words, those three letters behind a person's name are more of a right-of-passage to get paid for doing original research than a proof of one's intelligence.

Anyway, you seem like a very intelligent person. If I were you, I would apply for a job as an applications programmer and work your way up to computer theorist... if that is your ultimate goal. Although application programmer jobs are difficult to get these days, thanks to global outsourcing, you can sometimes get a company to sponser you to go to college in your spare time. Since you have learned so much on your own, college would probably be a good review. I wouldn't worry about repeating education. Fundamental principles usually stick better the second or third time around. Besides, I have observed first-hand that some international students have actually previously earned the very degrees they are working on in the US before leaving their home countries.

If I were you, I would list "home school" under the education part of your resume. In place of the traditional college education, you could list specific names of textbooks you have read and computer languages you have taught yourself.

Like I said, you seem very intelligent. Is there any chance you could take an IQ test and get yourself a MENSA membership? That would help work as an "eye catcher".

Just remember that a resume is nothing more than a ticket to a job interview. If you don't look good on paper, in the eyes of the hiring manager, you will not get the interview... even if you are the most intelligent person who ever lived.

 

[mathwonk]

You cannot get a degree unless you are accepted, and you canot be accepted unless you have the usual prereqs, so chroot is probably right.

Note his advice to exemopt as much as possible using the allowed methods.

E.g. when i wanted to obtain entrance to grad school at UWash in 1973 or so, I simply showed up and took their PhD quals and passed them.

This kind of thing immediately convinces them you are qualified, when you outperform their own students, but it is hopeless to simply say you have been studying on your own and quite effectively.The truth is most people who say this are wrong, even if you are not. So you need to give them some way to realize you are who you are.

Or just take one course and blow the top off it. To become viable, you must show you can pass high on a standardized measure. You do not need to do everything, but you need to do enough to obtain an advocate.

By the way, if it makes you feel better, i already believe you are strong, just based on my memory of posts here by you, and I have a lot of experience in rating talent.so the answer to your original question is "yes", but only because I already know you. strangers will mostly say "no".

But you have so ething most people do not, namely talent, determination, and brains. As my old high school teacher's husband, a college math professor, told me after I flunked out of college, "get back in there, you can do this".

PS: WE all fear failure, but we all also fail from time to time, that is normal. The harder the task the more likely is failure. But failure is only temporary, if you try again. Success is inevitable for someone with your gifts.

When I heard Karen Uhlenbeck speak at the ICM in Tokyo in 1990, I was struck by her courage and candor in speaking about some of her biggest "failures". Even those shed light on problems, if they were good honest, hard efforts.

 

[honestrosewater]

I'll be honest. The job you describe sounds to me like a PhD level position. Anyone on these boards who has finished a PhD will tell you that it relies on 99% blood, sweat and tears... and 1% raw talent. In other words, those three letters behind a person's name are more of a right-of-passage to get paid for doing original research than a proof of one's intelligence.

Mathematical linguist? Yes, I want to earn a PhD in the field and do original research. I would also love to teach. I have some friends in grad school and realize that it is hard work.

Is there any chance you could take an IQ test and get yourself a MENSA membership? That would help work as an "eye catcher".

Yeah, I have considered that before. Something about it is not quite me. I'm not really sure what it says. I actually had an IQ test in elementary school and scored high enough to enter the gifted program. I checked a while ago, when I was considering joining Mensa to put it on a resume or school application, and found out that that required a score at least two standard deviations above the mean, which, glancing at the accepted scores that they list, looks to be what they require (I don't know which test I was given). I think that Mensa might accept previous scores from any time, so I might not even have to take a test to qualify. But, that's the thing, what does it say if I don't even have to take a test to qualify, and it depends on something that I did twenty years ago?

I mean, I don't know... I'll think about it.

Um... on a side note... does it sound like I'm trying to boast or something? I mean, haha. I realize I tend to score "high", so it might sound that way. But... eh, I'm just stating facts. I don't make up these tests, and I don't presume to be able to judge them or know what they measure, and I don't expect anyone to care what I score other than the people who have decided to use these scores for something. I mean... haha, I don't know. I'm just saying that, from what I know about myself and from past performance on test and such that other people have devised, I think that I would do very well in school and be very happy. It's getting back into the system that seems incredibly daunting. Meh, whatever. I don't really even feel right asking this. :derp:

Just remember that a resume is nothing more than a ticket to a job interview. If you don't look good on paper, in the eyes of the hiring manager, you will not get the interview... even if you are the most intelligent person who ever lived.

Right. Well, the reason for getting a better job was to have enough time and money to go to school. If I can get enough aid, I don't need to worry about my job search anymore. Even working part-time, perhaps at the school, would be doable. I have no fear whatsoever of hard work. I work hard even when no one else is rewarding me for it.

(I do have something of a fear of failure, though. Sigh.)

 

[honestrosewater]

Thanks, mathwonk, that is very encouraging.

 

[Surrealist]

Right. Well, the reason for getting a better job was to have enough time and money to go to school. If I can get enough aid, I don't need to worry about my job search anymore. Even working part-time, perhaps at the school, would be doable. I have no fear whatsoever of hard work. I work hard even when no one else is rewarding me for it.

(I do have something of a fear of failure, though. Sigh.)

I wish you the best. If things don't work out, there is always one option (depending on your personal ethics)... join the Navy.

I had a roomate my sophomore year of college. He was a really bright guy, but he partied way too much. Long story short... he dropped out of college and joined the Navy. He had a high IQ and demonstrated a high aptitude for learning computer programming. So, they trained him to be a SIGINT hacker. Trust me, those guys know **** they are not capable of teaching in schools.

Anyway, the Navy offers the option of taking college courses in your spare time, and after three to five years of service, you could be eligible to receive the GI Bill.

Many people on these boards are passivists. Like I said, it all depends on your personal set of ethics.

 

[chroot]

Yeah, I have considered that before. Something about it is not quite me. I'm not really sure what it says. I actually had an IQ test in elementary school and scored high enough to enter the gifted program. I checked a while ago, when I was considering joining Mensa to put it on a resume or school application, and found out that that required a score at least two standard deviations above the mean, which, glancing at the accepted scores that they list, looks to be what they require (I don't know which test I was given).

Most of the tests Mensa accepts must have been administered after the age of 16. In general, IQ tests of school children are not reliable indicators of IQ in adulthood. So the answer is no, you cannot simply submit test scores you received in childhood.

Um... on a side note... does it sound like I'm trying to boast or something? I mean, haha. I realize I tend to score "high", so it might sound that way. But... eh, I'm just stating facts. I don't make up these tests, and I don't presume to be able to judge them or know what they measure, and I don't expect anyone to care what I score other than the people who have decided to use these scores for something.

Well, to be honest, it does sound rather like you're boasting. You keep saying things like I haven't taken the SAT, but I expected a score of nearly 1600, and I haven't really even looked at the GRE, but I think I'm competent to become a graduate student directly, and I think I'm eligible to join Mensa because I scored well on an IQ test when I was a child.

This all seems like nothing but idle speculation to me. You've never taken the SAT. You've never taken the ACT. You've never taken the GRE. You've never taken a GRE subject test. You've never taken an IQ test as an adult. You've apparently never even taken any undergraduate-level coursework. You've never published a paper, or participated in any graduate-level research. Yet you seem completely cavalier about simply asserting that you'd do phenomenally on all these things.

I'm not saying you won't... but c'mon. Go take the tests already, then boast. You're trying to find some way to demonstrate your talents, right?

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, to be honest,

Thank you.

it does sound rather like you're boasting. You keep saying things like I haven't taken the SAT, but I expected a score of nearly 1600, and I haven't really even looked at the GRE, but I think I'm competent to become a graduate student directly, and I think I'm eligible to join Mensa because I scored well on an IQ test when I was a child.

Yeah, I did realize that I had been saying stuff like that a lot. That's why I asked. I think I might have been trying to convince myself of my potential a bit -- I have some pretty big doubts about how well I could actually perform at these things, for some of the reasons that you mention below -- but who knows. Maybe I was just being jerky.

Sorry if I was being jerky.

This all seems like nothing but idle speculation to me. You've never taken the SAT. You've never taken the ACT. You've never taken the GRE. You've never taken a GRE subject test. You've never taken an IQ test as an adult. You've apparently never even taken any undergraduate-level coursework. You've never published a paper, or participated in any graduate-level research. Yet you seem completely cavalier about simply asserting that you'd do phenomenally on all these things.

Well, I didn't mean to assert that at all. I am trying to guess and make assumptions for planning purposes. And I thought that I was clear about the fact that I was making guesses and assumptions. But, yes, I think I get your point very well. I haven't even taken a class in 9 years. I do homework, but I don't keep track of grades or penalize myself if it's late. And so on. I know. I need to just stop talking and do it.

I'm not saying you won't... but c'mon. Go take the tests already, then boast. You're trying to find some way to demonstrate your talents, right?

Yes, point taken.

 

[mathwonk]

I've known lots of really bright people who hated taking tests. I mayself liked little tests but not big ones, like trying as hard as I could to get a PhD.

I think I didn't want the reality of what came out to sully my idea of how good I was. I think this overperfectionism of what reality will say to our ideals, also affected my bright firends.

Finally one day, very late in my career, I decided, with stimulus from the job market and family mouths to feed, that I waS GOING TO SEE HOW WELL I COULD DO IN THE REal world, and if it was not as good as I imagined, so what?

In 10 short years I went from being asked to elkave grad school, to being an NSF supported postdoc at Harvard, talking to Fields medalists.

I didn't become a Harvard proffesor, noir win the Fields medal myself, but it was easier than the meat lugging job I had been holding down 10 years earlier while in grad school.

And now I get to pontificate to younger smarter people, at the risk of being corrected of course. Thats the risk we take when we step up.by the way people who do well on standardized tests practice for them in advance. i was on the math contest team for years before taking the sat, and i bought old sat practice books for my kids and graded them for them starting when they were 12. doesn't make you smarter, just makes you look smarter on the test.

 

[chroot]

Sorry if I was being jerky.

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings -- I think you're going to do very well in school. I just think you might have to begin at the beginning, like all the rest of us, in undergraduate school. Pick the right school, and enjoy the best four (or three, or two!) years of your life. It's never too late to get started, and it's an experience you will hold dear to your heart for the rest of your life.

- Warren