X-ray Cystallography -Calculating Density

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    Density X-ray
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of crystal density using X-ray crystallography, specifically for Lithium Fluoride, Rubidium Chloride, and Potassium Chloride. Participants explore the implications of packing efficiency and the assumptions made in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the high density values calculated may be due to the assumption that the unit cell contains no empty space, proposing a recalculation with an assumption of 25% empty space.
  • Another participant disagrees, asserting that empty space does not need to be considered in the density calculation, indicating a potential disagreement on the definition of density in this context.
  • A request is made for a complete calculation to clarify the steps taken from d-spacings to density, highlighting the need for transparency in the methodology.
  • It is noted that there are multiple d-values for different families of planes in crystallography, emphasizing the importance of the specific d-spacing used in calculations.
  • One participant challenges the understanding of density, stating it is simply mass divided by volume, regardless of whether the volume includes empty space, and suggests that the issue may lie in the d-value used.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential underestimation of d-values due to extinction effects in Bragg's Law, which could affect the calculated density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether to account for empty space in the density calculations, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the calculations and the potential for errors in the d-value used, as well as the implications of packing efficiency on density calculations.

Losh
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Hi,

In our lab session on x-ray crystallography we found values for d, the plane separation using Bragg's law and from that we are supposed to find the density of the crystals (Lithium Fluoride, Rubidium Chloride and Potassium Chloride). However, when we calculated the densities they were much higher than the accepted values. I suggested that this might be because we assumed that the unit cell contains no empty space, so I recalculated the densities assuming that about 25% of the cells are empty (packing efficiency for face centred cubic crystals is about 75%) and therefore has no mass and got values much closer to what would be expected.

My lab partner thinks I'm wrong and that we don't need to consider empty space though so I'm not sure whether this is correct?

Thank you in advance for any help.
 
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How many atoms of potassium and chlorine are in a potassium chloride crystal that weighs about 75 grams?

Bob S
 
Losh: Please show the complete calculation - it's not clear what steps you took to go from d-spacings to the density.
 
Ok. We were told that one side of a unit cell of any of the crystals was 2d so we calculated the volume of a unit cell from that (2d)^3. Then we calculated the mass of a unit cell by using the fact that there are 4 atoms of each of the 2 elements in 1 unit cell and by calculating the mass of one atom of each element from data tables of atomic weight and then summing to get the total mass of the atoms in the cell. Then we found density by doing M/V.

I thought we might have to account for the empty space in the cell though since the mass we used was the total mass of the atoms in the cell but the volume we used was the total volume with empty space included? I don't know it may just be me being stupid!

Thanks again.
 
Let's back up a couple of steps. There is not a single unique value of d, which is the spacing between a set of parallel planes, and for different families of planes you have different d-values. Each value is derived from a specific reflection, using Bragg's Law.

So, to start over, what value of d-spacing did you use for the calculation, and why? Did you index the peaks, etc. Please start from the beginning - it's difficult to diagnose where the error may be without the whole story.
 
Last edited:
Back to my previous question, rephrased. What is the gram-molecular weight of the potassium chloride molecule, and how many molecules are in it? How many atoms are in it?

Bob S
 
Dear Losh,
let the calculation method alone first, the way you understand the "density" is wrong, the density is just mass/volume, please tell me total mass and total volume, i will give you the density, i don't care about the volume is empty or half empty or not, so your partner is right. According to volume is from XRD, i guess there must be something wrong with the "d", please pay attetion to the extinction effect in Brag, sometimes you get (100) is not real (100), for example, maybe in fact (200), so the "d" may be underestimated.
 

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