Xt - Understanding Dipole Moment Components in Rigid and Non-Rigid Molecules

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the dipole moment vector components in both rigid and non-rigid molecules. Participants explore how the dipole moment changes with the configuration of identical nuclei and the implications of molecular rigidity on defining the molecule-fixed axis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Konte raises a question about how to define the molecule-fixed axis for dipole moment components in non-rigid molecules.
  • Some participants suggest considering expectation values as a potential approach to address the issue.
  • A participant explains that in molecular mechanics, a rigid molecule is typically assumed to rotate without significant vibration, but acknowledges that real molecules vibrate, complicating the definition of rigidity.
  • Another participant mentions "Sayvez conditions" as a relevant concept to consider in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the application of dipole moment concepts to non-rigid molecules, and there is no consensus on the best approach to define the molecule-fixed axis in such cases.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions of molecular rigidity and the complexities introduced by molecular vibrations, which remain unresolved.

Konte
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Hi everybody,

I want to ask a question about the dipole moment vector ##\vec{d}##, with components expressed in the molecule-fixed axis. By permuting identical nuclei that compose a rigid molecule, I know how ##d_x##, ##d_y##, ##d_z## change.
But when dealing with non-rigid molecule, I no longer know how to direct the molecule fixed- axis?

Thank you everybody.

Konte
 
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Could you work with expectation values?
 
Jilang said:
Could you work with expectation values?
How? What does you mean?

Konte.
 
In molecular mechanics, what is meant by rigid is usually the assumption that the molecule only rotates in space without any vibration or at least vibrates with very small amplitude. In reality of course the molecule vibrates and hence the concept of rigid molecule no longer applies however for some low vibrational quantum numbers where the vibrational eigenfunction is more localized around the equilibrium position, you can take the equilibrium position to determine the axis.
 
Look out for "Sayvez conditions".
 
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Thank you guys for your answer.
 

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