News Your opinion about Mr.Zapatero

[Clausius2]

To those who don't know who is Mr. Zapatero, he is the Prime Minister of Spain. He won the 14th March presidential elections, beating Mr. Jose María Aznar. Please, say what you want about the Spanish government and our prime minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. You can comment what you want about the nowadays changes in our new relationship with the U.S.A., and our new friendly position with France and Germany.

I'm anxious for knowing your opinions.

 

[Shahil]

Dude - hows some links so we can actually find info on what Mr. Zapatero is doing!

Anyway - isn't/wasn't he a communist? In that case - I applaud all his efforts!

 

[Clausius2]

Dude - hows some links so we can actually find info on what Mr. Zapatero is doing!

Anyway - isn't/wasn't he a communist? In that case - I applaud all his efforts!

Be sure, if Zapatero were communist, I will travel abroad and no come back never.

Here are some links googling:

www.einnews.com/spain/ newsfeed-JoseLuisRodriguezZapatero[/URL]

Zapatero talking about Kerrie:
[url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/15/125545.shtml[/url]

Zapatero critizising USA at war:
[PLAIN]http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0315-02.htm

 

[wasteofo2]

Being American, the only countries I hear anything about on the news are my own and Iraq. All I learned about Mr. Zapatero was that he was a socialist and got subliminal messages from the media that he was bad for being Socialist, and as a result of electing a Socialist, Spain was a bad country. What's he done so far?

 

[JohnDubYa]

Being American, the only countries I know anything about are my own and Iraq.

Speak for your own ignorance. I am quite familiar with world geography. If you didn't pay attention in school and have not read world history on your own, don't blame your ignorance on being an American.

 

[Mercator]

Just FYI; Spain is the country between Andorra and Gibraltar. Spain has arguably been the most aggressive conquering power in the world history. Look at today's Spanish speaking countries and you will see their legacy did not bring much to the conquered, so it's nice to see one of their leaders redraw the troops. It shows that even the Spanish have learned not to fight for the wrong cause. I would suggest that Spain sends it's soldiers out on a mission to capture Bin Laden and do something against terrorism in stead of provoking it in Iraq. As for Zapatero: I hope he stays consequent.

 

[wasteofo2]

Speak for your own ignorance. I am quite familiar with world geography. If you didn't pay attention in school and have not read world history on your own, don't blame your ignorance on being an American.

Sorry if I have offended you, I edited my post to be less objectionable.

Surprisingly enough, my school teachers don't teach anything about current events that I couldn't learn by watching the news, and there's hardly any time to stray off topic with the rigid cirriculum they must follow so that we do well on the state exams.

 

[GENIERE]

Under José María Aznar Spanish unemployment was cut in half. Under the present communist regime, unemployment is the highest in the EU. Except for England all EU countries fare poorly with High unemployment. Apparently 10%+ unemployment is considered a small price for getting one’s toenails clipped courtesy of the government.

 

[wasteofo2]

Under José María Aznar Spanish unemployment was cut in half. Under the present communist regime, unemployment is the highest in the EU. Except for England all EU countries fare poorly with High unemployment. Apparently 10%+ unemployment is considered a small price for getting one’s toenails clipped courtesy of the government.

Hey man, you know Spanish people, they're chill. "Oh well, I don't have work, that's alright, I've got some red wine and seafood, I'm cool with that".

Yes, I do have an uncanny knowledge of other culture's subtleties, no need to flatter.

 

[Mercator]

Under José María Aznar Spanish unemployment was cut in half. Under the present communist regime, unemployment is the highest in the EU. Except for England all EU countries fare poorly with High unemployment. Apparently 10%+ unemployment is considered a small price for getting one’s toenails clipped courtesy of the government.

Geniere, socialist is not communist, please be more accurate in your terminology.

Further, You never hesitate to make something up to defend your views, don't you? The link below gives access to the official Spanish database, month per month. Now tell me where you see the halvation in there?
Actually, the unemployment rate has decreased a bit under Zapatero, albeit not enough to indicate a real trend. Use facts next time.

http://www.ine.es/inebase/cgi/axi

 

[wasteofo2]

The link below gives access to the official Spanish database, month per month. Now tell me where you see the halvation in there?
Actually, the unemployment rate has decreased a bit under Zapatero, albeit not enough to indicate a real trend. Use facts next time.

http://www.ine.es/inebase/cgi/axi

The site doesn't work.

Just goes to show, god hates communists.

 

[Mercator]

The site doesn't work.

Just goes to show, god hates communists.

Of course he does, his son was one once.
just go to www.ine.es then click on INEBASE above, on ythat page , under Sociedad, click Mercado laboral, then click :Paro registrado y movimiento laboral registrado. Then "resumen mensual" then "Consultar todo", this gives you all the figures since 1990.

Of course it's easier to consult the "Neocons simplified view on the world guide".

 

[Clausius2]

Interesting opinions. Thanks to all. I will quote somethings for a further clarifying:

Being American, the only countries I hear anything about on the news are my own and Iraq. All I learned about Mr. Zapatero was that he was a socialist and got subliminal messages from the media that he was bad for being Socialist, and as a result of electing a Socialist, Spain was a bad country. What's he done so far?

Although JohnDubYa scolded you, you are one of the representing students of your country. So that, your opinion about the external world is a mirror of what is happening there. You talked about your teachers don't tell nothing about other countries in your classes. Ok, mine's not too. I only have to read a newspaper for knowing what is happening in the world. The mission of the classes is not to show you the nowadays world events.

It is interesting to see the horror that provoke some political called "red" positions in USA, I mean, near of socialism. Maybe, it's because of that Bush do not want to see Zapatero and viceversa. The reason of that behaviour is that many american films is being made positioning the typical "russian communism" like the enemy to beat. The traditional enemy of USA has been the communists (China, Russia) and maybe for that you are warned about less conservative positions. You must know Tony Blair (your principal and unique alliance here in Europe) is socialist. The socialism, fortunately has nothing to do with communsim.But unfortunately, spanish socialism has nothing to do with european socialism (Blair, Schröeder).
I will show you why.

Hey man, you know Spanish people, they're chill. "Oh well, I don't have work, that's alright, I've got some red wine and seafood, I'm cool with that".

That was right, that was correct!. But that was correct. Under J.M Aznar this adage was neutralized. Spain has reached the best unemployment figures ever seen. We have reached the best economics figures of economic growth in Europe. Countries like Germany or France has worse figures than us. So that, Mr Aznar has a lot of arguments with Chirac and Shröeder because they wanted to stop recently settlements made which Spain had reached without any effort. Spain was a powered country in Europe, and its position against France and Germany about Irak was a threat for them and their power. The spanish man has been a worker for the last decade. The adage you talk about comes from former ages, where the "flamenco" and "sevillanas" was the signature of Spain all around the world. The socialists shared this vision before Aznar won the elections in 1996.

Now, the return of socialism is viewed with scepticism by a part of the population that voted to the Aznar party (called the PP). A half of the country is with socialists, and the other half is with more conservative positions (PP). Here we have more diversity of ideas than in USA. This is a bad thing and a good thing in part. The diversity of opinions enhances you to hear a lot of stupid things, but also enables you to have a wider vision of your country. The PP supporters are worried about the return of the "sevillanas" y "flamenco" times (as wasteofo2 said), and the return of unemployment and bad economic figures.

 

[Clausius2]

Just FYI; Spain is the country between Andorra and Gibraltar. Spain has arguably been the most aggressive conquering power in the world history. Look at today's Spanish speaking countries and you will see their legacy did not bring much to the conquered, so it's nice to see one of their leaders redraw the troops. It shows that even the Spanish have learned not to fight for the wrong cause. I would suggest that Spain sends it's soldiers out on a mission to capture Bin Laden and do something against terrorism in stead of provoking it in Iraq. As for Zapatero: I hope he stays consequent.

Yes, Mercator. In Former Age, Spain has the greater power ever seen in the World. We were conquerors, we discovered America (Cristobal Colón was not spanish, but the money to build his ships and support the travel was provided by the Kings of Spain, without that money it had not been possible at all and americans would be living with an axe nowadays).

About fighting against terrorism, you are in a misconception. I have said this in another threads yet. You understand like terrorism the islamic terrorism. We have fighted against terrorist during the last 40 years. The terrorism of ETA. You have discovered terrorism since the 911 events. We have discovered terrorism 40 years ago. We know better than you how to fight against terrorism. If there are countries that have to advice USA how to fight against terrorism, one of them would be Spain, and the other Great Britain. Also Mr Aznar suffered a bombing in his car when he was going to work.

The only thing unbelievable here is that USA has Morocco as his strongest allied in the world. All the terrorist being judged by the 11th March terrorist attack come from Morocco. And USA is supporting in a stupid way that country.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Although JohnDubYa scolded you, you are one of the representing students of your country. So that, your opinion about the external world is a mirror of what is happening there. You talked about your teachers don't tell nothing about other countries in your classes. Ok, mine's not too. I only have to read a newspaper for knowing what is happening in the world. The mission of the classes is not to show you the nowadays world events.

First of all, he is only one person, not a representative. His views do not <b>mirror</b> anything. Second, they teach world history and geography in nearly all, if not all, public schools.

 

[Clausius2]

Ok, I wasn't saying he is representative enough. If USA have P millions of population, he's a 1/P*100% representative of USA. It's better than nothing. Don't you think so, John?.

To say the truth, if any european person hear the wasteofo2 words, he will be not be very surprised, be sure. Here the people believe USA goes on thinking only of his border to inwards. But surely there are people like you (and me) who are interested on international affairs.

 

[wasteofo2]

First of all, he is only one person, not a representative. His views do not <b>mirror</b> anything. Second, they teach world history and geography in nearly all, if not all, public schools.

Geography? Not so much.

For each region of the world we study, we spend maybe 20 minutes on Geography (and by region of the world, I mean continent). It's so bad that the half class we were going to spend on South American geography last year started out with the teacher handing out a map of South America with boarders marked but no names written, and someone asked if it were Africa.

John, besides a select few kids who immerse themselves in geopolitics/current events, most people my age in America wouldn't even be able to tell you who Zapatero was (hell, 70% couldn't find their own state on an unmarked map) no less the effects his policies have had on the people of Spain. Please excuse the fact that a 16 year old doesn't exactly know everything their is to know about every country out there, especially with such crazy stuff going on in my own country. Again, I'd bet that well under 3/4 of Highschool Juniors in America could even tell you who Zapatero was. Judging from the kids in my school and other kids my age that I know from around the country, I concern myself with politics/international events much more than the average student. I tried to start a conversation with a kid in my American Studies class (before the teacher had started the lesson) about how Putin had eliminated people's abilities to vote for Governors and Parliment members, and I got a resounding "Who cares about Russia?". Kids my age don't know a thing about politics as a whole, especially the politics of other countries.

 

[wasteofo2]

Here we have more diversity of ideas than in USA. This is a bad thing and a good thing in part. The diversity of opinions enhances you to hear a lot of stupid things, but also enables you to have a wider vision of your country.

I don't know much about Spanish culture/politics, but I doubt any country has more diversity of ideas than the USA. Not all the ideas are expressed by Bush, but among the people, I think the US is probabally the most Diverse Nation in the world.

 

[JohnDubYa]

I'm not going to defend our public schools. I have my gripes as well. I just don't like it when Americans go out of their way to ridicule their own country by projecting their own inadequencies on everyone else. Show some pride, for God's sake!

If a Frenchman came in here and said "You will have to excuse my spinelessness, for I am French," I think the French would have every right to complain. Sure, I can understand why Americans would say something like that (we are rivals to a certain extent), but any Frenchman who says that isn't much a Frenchman. And I feel the same way about Americans who, in essence, say "Pardon my stupidity, but I'm an American." With citizens like that, who needs enemies?

This is how low the politics have sunk in this country. In an effort to prop up the views of our rivals, our own citizens are disparaging themselves in an effort to brand the same identity on our government.

Now, maybe I misunderstood the original poster's angle. If so, I'm sorry. I saw what he wrote and, to me, it looked like a politically motivated cheap shot. But I could be wrong. And if he says I am, I will apologize.

 

[GENIERE]

Further, You never hesitate to make something up to defend your views, don't you? The link below gives access to the official Spanish database, month per month. Now tell me where you see the halvation in there?

The facts are as I stated them. Under Aznar unemployment more than halved. Under the present communist regime the unemployment at 11+% is highest in the EU.

http://www.spainuscc.org/eng/publications/LinkFall2000/paro21.html
Unemployment in Spain
Plummets to 21-Year Lows
by John Whitman

Steep declines in Spanish unemployment since 1994 shattered records in August 2000, as Spain’s registered unemployment rate dipped to 8.86%, the lowest level since December 1979.
Antonio de Oyarzábal, Spain’s former Ambassador to the United States, says that “everything now points to job creation,” and that a number of economic and political factors are working in concert to help Spain bring unemployment “figures down to the European level.”
After being plagued for two decades with double digit unemployment, Spaniards are finally getting some relief. Since 1994, registered unemployment, as measured by Spain’s National Employment Institute (INEM), has fallen from 18.0% in February 1994 to 8.86% in August 2000. At its peak, 2.77 million unemployed were registered with INEM and actively seeking work. By August 2000 this figure had declined by 46%, to 1.49 million.

Geniere, socialist is not communist, please be more accurate in your terminology.

What's the difference?

- -

 

[Mercator]

The facts are as I stated them. Under Aznar unemployment more than halved. Under the present communist regime the unemployment at 11+% is highest in the EU.

http://www.spainuscc.org/eng/publications/LinkFall2000/paro21.html
Unemployment in Spain
Plummets to 21-Year Lows
by John Whitman

Steep declines in Spanish unemployment since 1994 shattered records in August 2000, as Spain’s registered unemployment rate dipped to 8.86%, the lowest level since December 1979.
Antonio de Oyarzábal, Spain’s former Ambassador to the United States, says that “everything now points to job creation,” and that a number of economic and political factors are working in concert to help Spain bring unemployment “figures down to the European level.”
After being plagued for two decades with double digit unemployment, Spaniards are finally getting some relief. Since 1994, registered unemployment, as measured by Spain’s National Employment Institute (INEM), has fallen from 18.0% in February 1994 to 8.86% in August 2000. At its peak, 2.77 million unemployed were registered with INEM and actively seeking work. By August 2000 this figure had declined by 46%, to 1.49 million.



What's the difference?

- -

From the lowest 1.49 million in 2000, unemployment surged to 1.75 million in 2004. Check the COMPLETE statistics following my link. Agreed, from 2.77 to 1.75 is not a bad result. But, you should have said: under Aznar the unemployment was 11%, the highest in the EU. The new government has just taken over and contrary to what you want us to believe, the unemployment WENT DOWN. I am not a supporter of Zapateros economic policies, of which I know next to nothing , but facts are facts and figures are figures, you cannot just take out the figures you like.

If you cannot even make the distinction between socialism and communism, no use discussing politics with you.

 

[Mercator]

And in case you are not convinced buy Spanish official statistics, here another link which gives food for following observation: during most of Aznar's term he was not able to get the unemployment rate below 11 % (and I will not start discussing about his methods to clean up statistics by excluding certain categories of unemployed, in theory the following link provided standardized figures) http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/13/18595359.pdf

A bit different than wat you put forward huh? Now YOU show me what effect Zapatero had on the figures since he came into power.

 

[Clausius2]

I don't know much about Spanish culture/politics, but I doubt any country has more diversity of ideas than the USA. Not all the ideas are expressed by Bush, but among the people, I think the US is probabally the most Diverse Nation in the world.

Correct. I meant: diversity of political ideas. In USA, Kerry, Bush or Franks are not too far each other. Here, Aznar y Zapatero do are too far each other. I meant that.

 

[Clausius2]

What's the difference?

- -

Tony Blair is a socialist. Ask him which is the difference. Here the socialists are not like the communists russians of Rambo films. The socialism is a very much centered position, by the way fortunately!.

under Aznar the unemployment was 11%, the highest in the EU

I don't think so. Aznar was president between 1996-2004. During this period, Spain reached the lowest figures in unemployment. ---By the way, I rather prefer to know where do you come from, in order to have a more interesting conversation.--- This was not the highest percentage in EU (give me some reference to check it). I think not because Germany has suffered recently a period of economics storms. They have lowered is figures and surely the unemployment have suffered an increasing there. 1.500.000 unemployees of 50.000.000 of inhabitants is not a bad figure, compared with the 2.500.000 unemployees in the end of the last socialist period lead by Felipe Gonzalez in 1996.

You have to know too that it does not all unemployment affairs. Educational quality, medical services, international alliances... are also important.

 

[Smurf]

Socialism is the idea that the working class, the class that produces the profits, the wealth, the cars, houses, planes, steel, should take over and run things collectively, democratically, for the benefit of the majority (who also "just happen" to be workers too).

Communism is the idea that society should not have classes - exploiters and exploited, oppressors and oppressed, and so on.

its a bit more sketchy than that though

 

[GENIERE]

Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help. If there is a difference, it would the element of globalization (no nation states, the communist ideal) and various degrees of national independence as might be expressed by the German Social Democratic Party. The EU is an example of globalization, as the member states must cede sovereignty to qualify. Human rights are not guaranteed under the EU constitution, allowing that determination to be made by the individual member nations. Sounds good until one realizes the Word Court can prosecute individuals subject only to its laws. What makes the UN so very dangerous is it’s obvious commitment to the globalization process (communism) and the necessary need to defeat capitalism at all costs. Capitalism is the ONLY mechanism thus far known to create wealth, however inequitably that wealth is distributed. Socialism, aka communism, has served only to impede the wealth generation of the nations so governed, thereby lowering the living standards of the citizen. The social programs so cherished by the populace can no longer be supported by the poor economic performance of their nations. It’s amusing that the EU is discussing the imposition of an import tariff based on the exporting country's tax rate. The lower the tax rate, the higher the tariff. Obviously the EU is aware that socialism/communism cannot compete with the wealth generation of free nations.

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

As far as the Spanish unemployment figures one should refer to Clausius2’s posts. Clausius2, an informed Spanish citizen does not support Mercator’s imagined facts.

= =

 

[Mercator]

Geniere, first you write this: (about socialst and communist)

What's the difference? = =

Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help.

= =

So you don't know the difference and then you try to explain the difference to me? Anyway, your "definition" shiows that your first question reflects your knowledge about it.

As for unemployment, look at the statistics and don't try to avoid your humiliation by hiding behind another person (who does not care to have a look at the statistics either). Be a man and admit: in begin of this year, under Aznar, unemployment was > 11 %. So, because it was Aznar, it is acceptable to you to have 11 % unemployed?

Clausius, check the figures in my link and then confirm.

Please don't discuss further without knowledge or in ignorance of the facts.

 

[wasteofo2]

I'm not going to defend our public schools. I have my gripes as well. I just don't like it when Americans go out of their way to ridicule their own country by projecting their own inadequencies on everyone else. Show some pride, for God's sake!

If a Frenchman came in here and said "You will have to excuse my spinelessness, for I am French," I think the French would have every right to complain. Sure, I can understand why Americans would say something like that (we are rivals to a certain extent), but any Frenchman who says that isn't much a Frenchman. And I feel the same way about Americans who, in essence, say "Pardon my stupidity, but I'm an American." With citizens like that, who needs enemies?

This is how low the politics have sunk in this country. In an effort to prop up the views of our rivals, our own citizens are disparaging themselves in an effort to brand the same identity on our government.

Now, maybe I misunderstood the original poster's angle. If so, I'm sorry. I saw what he wrote and, to me, it looked like a politically motivated cheap shot. But I could be wrong. And if he says I am, I will apologize.

It was meant more to be an insult to our media, not really our govt. You must admit that MSNBC, CNN and Fox News don't do a very good job of covering much international news that doesn't have to do with war and the French being fondue eating surrender monkeys.

I'm not really nationalistic, so I'm not going to pretend like the USA's a country full of people who know tons and tons about Spain's government just to project a better image of America to random people on the internet.

 

[JohnDubYa]

I'm not really nationalistic, so I'm not going to pretend like the USA's a country full of people who know tons and tons about Spain's government just to project a better image of America to random people on the internet.

No one asked you to.

 

[wasteofo2]

No one asked you to.

No, you just got mad at me for saying that as an American I don't know much about anything but the USA and Iraq.

 

[GENIERE]

Mercator - A reporter on assignment from CBS?

The question; "What's the difference?" does not infer I am unaware of the basic tenets of Socialism, or Communism. It was a question directed at the reader.

It is a fact that the percentage of unemployment was halved under Azner.

It is a fact that unemployment under Zapatero's regime is 11+%. I attribute the increase in unemployment to corporate despair, the anticipation of a socialist government being in power. Mercator is free to attribute causality to anything he wishes or imagines. Major, German owned corporations are threatening to out source their manufacturing to other, less restrictive EU countries. Spain, once a contender is no longer of interest to them.

Mercator should not presume to act as a mentor. This forum has only recently benefited from having a seemingly unbiased mentor, let’s keep it that way.

I apologize to Clausius2 for intruding on his thread. This is my last entry.

 

[Mercator]

It is a fact that unemployment under Zapatero's regime is 11+%. .

1.You have clearly shown with your attempt to an explanation ,that nobody asked for, that you don't understand the difference between Socialism and Communism.

2.The unemployment under Aznar was 11+ %. In the few months of Zapatero the unemployment went down slightly, as shown in the statistics that you keep ignoring. Sorry, you lost your argument, period, end of discussion.

 

[Mercator]

BTW, and this is a general remark, not intended for G alone.

If I had to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism to an American, for simplicity's sake I would compare a socialist to what Americans call a "liberal". Communists, though superficially they start from a different theory, are in practice like the Neocons. They too want world domination with a small elite on the top and are ruthless in pursuing their goals. In this respect the Chinese party is a model for the Neocons who wished they had the same unlimited power over "the people" and like in China can decide what's good for them and what not. People like Zapatero stand for exactly the opposite.

 

[Mercator]

Here are the figures.

Who was in charge in July 2003? Aznar. When did Zapatero take office?

July 2003 Jan 2004 Feb 2004 Mar 2004 Apr 2004 May 2004 June 2004 July 2004
Euro-zone 8.9 8.9 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0

ES 11.3 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.0 11.0 11.0

Nothing more to add I suppose.

 

[meteor]

I don't have nothing against Zapatero; in fact I prefer him to Aznar. But he should learn some english. He was in a quite ridicule position in a public act a pair of days ago when he showed his lack of ability in this language

 

[Mercator]

I don't have nothing against Zapatero; in fact I prefer him to Aznar. But he should learn some english. He was in a quite ridicule position in a public act a pair of days ago when he showed his lack of ability in this language

Maybe send him to a crash course together with Bush?

 

[Smurf]

Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help. If there is a difference, it would the element of globalization (no nation states, the communist ideal) and various degrees of national independence as might be expressed by the German Social Democratic Party. The EU is an example of globalization, as the member states must cede sovereignty to qualify. Human rights are not guaranteed under the EU constitution, allowing that determination to be made by the individual member nations. Sounds good until one realizes the Word Court can prosecute individuals subject only to its laws. What makes the UN so very dangerous is it’s obvious commitment to the globalization process (communism) and the necessary need to defeat capitalism at all costs. Capitalism is the ONLY mechanism thus far known to create wealth, however inequitably that wealth is distributed. Socialism, aka communism, has served only to impede the wealth generation of the nations so governed, thereby lowering the living standards of the citizen. The social programs so cherished by the populace can no longer be supported by the poor economic performance of their nations. It’s amusing that the EU is discussing the imposition of an import tariff based on the exporting country's tax rate. The lower the tax rate, the higher the tariff. Obviously the EU is aware that socialism/communism cannot compete with the wealth generation of free nations.

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

and

If I had to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism to an American, for simplicity's sake I would compare a socialist to what Americans call a "liberal". Communists, though superficially they start from a different theory, are in practice like the Neocons. They too want world domination with a small elite on the top and are ruthless in pursuing their goals. In this respect the Chinese party is a model for the Neocons who wished they had the same unlimited power over "the people" and like in China can decide what's good for them and what not. People like Zapatero stand for exactly the opposite.

This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.

 

[Mercator]

and

This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.

Sorry Smurf, never heard about the socialist and communist "internationale" ? Socialist ideas have indeed been introduced in many ways and forms in Europe, to the chagrin of people like G, not without success in countries like Sweden, the Netherlands and so on. But you are wrong about communism. It IS the goal of communism to dominate the whole world. Communism IS by definition totalitarian (dictatorship of proletariat) the communist internationale(s) all state that real communism can only be achieved in a completely communist world and cannot exist in a vacuum (it is the excuse amongst communists for the failure of communist regimes: the work is not finished yet) What I wanted to show is that extremists left and right are always closer than they want to admit, as history has shown us with Nazism (nazional Zocialism) and Fascism (by Socialist Mussolini).

But we were talking Zapatero here. Is a change from 11.1 to 11.0 an increase according to you? Am I the only one here who can read the figures in a statistic?

 

[Smurf]

Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and that's why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isn't an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?

 

[Mercator]

Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and that's why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isn't an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?

According to G-logic it will increase significantly as the figures go down.
The intellectulay dishonest proposition here was that Zapatero somehow increased the figures after he took over from Aznar. It may be that in the future unemployment may grow again in Spain, who knows, but when discussing, one better stays in tune with the facts.

 

[Clausius2]

Here are the figures.

Who was in charge in July 2003? Aznar. When did Zapatero take office?

July 2003 Jan 2004 Feb 2004 Mar 2004 Apr 2004 May 2004 June 2004 July 2004
Euro-zone 8.9 8.9 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0

ES 11.3 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.0 11.0 11.0

Nothing more to add I suppose.

It's all right. But this not mean it's the highest of Europe. I will search for the ones of Germany and France. You are comparing with the mean of euro zone.

At the end of Aznar's period, the unemployment increased a bit, but he made possible a reduction of 1.000.000 of employees. No criticizing about such small increasing is worth of mention. It's like you have defeated Goliath and somebody critices you for not killing a fly.

About Zapatero's. knowledge about english language, it's so sad to see him talking only about weather. But some people defines spaniard as the guy that is always trying to learn english all his life.

By contrast what you said about the slight decreasing of unemployment during the first times of Zapatero's period is true. But there are two points:
-The figures are not significative of any success
-The summer was inmmediately next. So that, the employment increases every year in that time, due to holidays and recreation businesses.

Also, the minister of enconomics has announced an increasing of the total economic deficit of the nation (1.8%) and the new-built houses and flats have increased their price a 17% last year. That is the highest increasing of all Europe.

 

[Clausius2]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

There's nothing to be ashamed of. Many of the core EU countries use make-work projects and lots of holidays and partial time work to disguise the reality. It's really hard for a government to really fix unemployment, and the EU compact greatly restricts the one tool they have, deficit spending.

 

[Mercator]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

Dont worry, Belgium is not much better. Clausius, I did not want to argue with you. My post was only aimed at the poster who made it look like Zapatero suddenly caused an increase in unemployment, which is not true. Maybe he will later, and I am sure to applaud Aznar for what he has done, but that does not give anyone the right to ignore the facts. But what else can you expect from soemeone who'se convinced socialists and communists are the same? Let's see what Zapatero does after a year or so. One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society. For anyone that knows a little bit about Spanish society that is good news.

 

[Mercator]

Finaly a man who wants to talk and involve the muslims themselves in solving terrorism. http://www.dubaiinteract.com/Media_SectionDisplay.aspx?Sectionid=88DC0EFB-ACD2-48CD-86D3-4B1D2CC0F9B3&Articleid=0231EB80-A7D7-44CF-9BD9-A33F8487EF5B&DisplayObjectMode=Article&DisplayMode=Detail&ObjectId=c9e4b29f-51a0-4a8d-addd-6f4dcc4922dd

 

[Clausius2]

One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Finaly a man who wants to talk and involve the muslims themselves in solving terrorism.

You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.

 

[Mercator]

You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.

So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better don't discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.

 

[Clausius2]

So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better don't discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.

I think:
1) you don't have any idea of what means Spanish macho.
2) I'm not a Spanish macho if you are saying that in an offensive way.
3) I agree with you about the women and their problems in our society.
4) I do not agree with Zapatero and his solution of putting the worst women in his cabinet.
5) You are not telling all the truth, because a lot of terrorist groups are supported and financed by that muslim goverments you mentioned.
6) I do not need a guy with makes a good impression to people like you who only watch their manners and politeness. I watch their technical capabilty to govern a country, and Aznar was like a scienctist in his laboratory while Zapatero is only visiting it, smiling a lot but doing nothing that a president has to do. The external appearance is not all in what you have to look into..

 

[Mercator]

GENIERE: still care to come back on this, or do you still prefer to keep silent if it is clearly proven you were abusing the figures? "Business/Economy

Unemployment rate hits three year low
Tuesday, October 26, 2004

By: ThinkSpain


Unemployment fell by 61,300 in the third quarter of this year and now stands at 10.54%, the lowest rate since the fourth quarter of 2001. The latest figures from the national statistics office show a fall from 10.93% in the second quarter and 11.38% in the first. During the third quarter, a total of 190,400 jobs were created, while the working population grew by 129,100 people. Over the last 12 months, unemployment has fallen by 83,300, and the total number of new jobs created has been 422,600. There are now a total of 2,031,000 unemployed people in Spain."
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7218

 

[Dayle Record]

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

Capitalism has a goal to keep their worker ants, in a culvert somewhere near Baker California, where they will be hosed off before work, and expected to find their way home again following trails of breadcrumbs...

Why doesn't anyone get Wasteofo's great humor, and cynicism, why so obtuse? I know, now that it is known that he is a student, the older males in the heirarchy can pretend to not notice him, and make obtuse comments, while munching termites off their little termite twigs.