Your Reasons Why Free Will is an Illusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of free will and whether it is an illusion. Participants are invited to provide reasons supporting the idea that free will does not exist, with a focus on short, simple, and strong arguments. The scope includes philosophical reasoning and debates on determinism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Philosophical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the criteria for determining a "best" argument against free will, suggesting that the premise itself may be flawed.
  • One participant proposes that quantum mechanics could imply a lack of free will, though they later clarify that they prefer determinist reasoning.
  • Another participant humorously asserts that their lack of free will prevents them from providing a reason against it, suggesting a paradox in the discussion.
  • A participant mentions Hume's argument, which states that even if sense impressions are accurate, there is no direct sense impression of free will.
  • One participant argues that free will and randomness are essentially the same, implying that unpredictability does not clarify whether nature is deterministic.
  • Several posts express skepticism about the depth of the discussion, with some participants finding it unengaging or trivial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the existence of free will or the validity of arguments against it. Multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on philosophical interpretations and assumptions about determinism and randomness, which may not be universally accepted or defined within the discussion.

Avalon
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Your Reasons Why "Free Will" is an Illusion

Cmon all you determinists. Provide me with your reasons and I will pick the best one. We are having a debate in my class and I need some thoughts.

POST AWAY!

I am looking for the best reason.Criteria for argument:

-Short

-Simple

-Strong

The Three S'(s).
 
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You will pick the best one? I.e. who is "most" right? Then what are the criteria for a good argument against free will?

By the way, is the fact that I'm posting in this thread while I think it's actually a waste of my time a good reason, or just empirical evidence (to which no induction can be applied).
 


CompuChip: Fail

NEXT.
 


OK, how about: Quantum mechanics tells us so?
You can pick any interpretation of QM (or make up your own).

Ow, you are looking for determinist reasonings. In that case I further refrain from the discussion.
(I've failed already anyway; which reminds me why I prefer science over philosophy :wink:)
 


I can usually argue both sides of anything but in this case my lack of free will is compelling me to tell you that can't be argued because it isn't an illusion. Sorry, wish I was free to give you a reason that free will is an illusion.

You are being forced to argue against free will even though you can't think of a reason to support that idea? Hmmm, sounds like you don't have free will.
 
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Come on, it was just a movie. Besides, no fish could ever be that big.
 


jimmysnyder said:
Come on, it was just a movie. Besides, no fish could ever be that big.

This argument cinches it for me.
 


Avalon said:
CompuChip: Fail

NEXT.
Sounds more like Avalon: Fail.

(Do your own homework!)
 


For a nontechnical person, has determinism objection been proven?
 
  • #10


Philosophical paradoxes are the illusion.
 
  • #11


Hume's argument is as follows: even if I grant that all of your sense impressions give you accurate information about the world, you still do not have any sense impressions of free will itself.
 
  • #12


This thread = YAWN.
 
  • #13


Avalon said:
Cmon all you determinists. Provide me with your reasons and I will pick the best one. We are having a debate in my class and I need some thoughts.

POST AWAY!

I am looking for the best reason.


Criteria for argument:

-Short

-Simple

-Strong

The Three S'(s).
FREE WILL refers to the fact that, in general, we can't specify the causes for the choices we make. Where you can specify the causes, then, by definition, your choice wasn't FREE.

So, FREE WILL means essentially the same thing as RANDOMNESS which means UNPREDICTABILITY. And neither FREE WILL nor RANDOMNESS tell us anything about whether or not Nature is DETERMINISTIC.

The fact that we are able to predict lots of natural phenomena suggests that nature is deterministic. The fact that quantum theory is able to predict the statistical results of a large number of experimental phenomena suggests that nature is deterministic. The fact that we still can't predict lots and lots of stuff suggests that our knowledge of Nature is incomplete.
 
  • #14


When I saw this thread title, I wondered why it wasn't posted in Philosophy ...

Avalon said:
Criteria for argument:

-Short

-Simple

... until I got to that part :smile:
 
  • #15


Redbelly, isn't the alternative definition
Threads with more than 25 posts and no (sensible) mathematical symbols, formulas or anything resembling a scientifical statement
equally good and applicable to this thread?

(I have included the mathematical symbols / formulas part to exclude certain long mathematics threads)
 
  • #16


CompuChip said:
Redbelly, isn't the alternative definition

Threads with more than 25 posts and no (sensible) mathematical symbols, formulas or anything resembling a scientifical statement

equally good and applicable to this thread?

(I have included the mathematical symbols / formulas part to exclude certain long mathematics threads)

Well heck, I completely forgot about that. And it's clearly stated in Section 8-12.1, paragraph 7 of our By-laws!
 
  • #17


Redbelly98 said:
Well heck, I completely forgot about that. And it's clearly stated in Section 8-12.1, paragraph 7 of our By-laws!

Well well, I didn't even know that.
I tried to read them, but I didn't get past Section 6. My ISP informed me that I had reached my monthly download limit. But it's March 1 now, so I can read another 6 sections.
 

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