Can R be a subring with identity different from 1_S?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of identity in a subring, specifically in the context of the tensor product of modules. It is argued that R cannot have a different identity from S, as this would contradict the definition of a monoid. It is suggested that a clearer way to phrase the quoted passage would be to state that R contains 1_S. Finally, a counterexample is given where S does not have a multiplicative identity, but R does.
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quasar987
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[SOLVED] Identity in a subring

Homework Statement


In Dummit & Foote on the section on tensor product of modules (10.4 pp.359), the authors write

"Suppose that the ring R is a subring of the ring S. Throughout this section, we always assume that [tex]1_R=1_S[/tex] (this ensures that S is a unital R-module)."

Now, I just want to make sure I'm not missing something. Can R be a subring with identity whose identity 1_R is different from 1_S?

I would say "no" because S, together with its multiplication operation, forms a monoid... and in a monoid M, the identity e is the only element with the ability to do me=em=m for any and all m in M. So if 1_R were an identity for R different than 1_S, it would mean 1_R*r = 1_S*r = r and we would have two different element with the ability to act on the elements of r like an identity, which contradicts the fact that S is a (multiplicative) monoid.

So instead, perhaps a less confusing way to write the above quoted passage would be to say,

"Suppose that the ring R is a subring of the ring S. Throughout this section, we always assume that R contains [tex]1_S[/tex] (this ensures that S is a unital R-module)."

Yes? Thanks for the feedback.
 
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  • #2
You are clearly assuming that any ring has a multiplicative identity. Is Dummit and Foote assuming that?
 
  • #3
Take S to be the ring of 2x2 matrices and R to be the subring consisting consisting of matrices [[x,0],[0,0]] for any x. [[1,0],[0,0]] is a unit for R, but not for S.
 
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1. What is a subring?

A subring is a subset of a ring that is closed under addition and multiplication and contains the additive and multiplicative identities of the larger ring. In other words, it is a smaller ring that shares some of the same properties as the larger ring.

2. What is the identity element in a subring?

The identity element in a subring is the same as the identity element in the larger ring. This is because a subring contains the same elements as the larger ring, just in a smaller subset. Therefore, the identity element will also be the same.

3. How does the identity element affect operations in a subring?

The identity element is crucial in determining the properties and behavior of operations in a subring. For addition, the identity element acts as a neutral element, meaning that when added to any element in the subring, it does not change the value of the element. For multiplication, the identity element acts as an identity element, meaning that when multiplied to any element in the subring, it does not change the value of the element.

4. Can there be multiple identity elements in a subring?

No, there can only be one identity element in a subring. This is because the identity element must satisfy the properties of being a neutral element for addition and an identity element for multiplication. If there were multiple identity elements, this would not be possible.

5. How does the identity element in a subring relate to the identity element in the larger ring?

The identity element in a subring is a subset of the identity element in the larger ring. This means that the identity element in the subring must also be the identity element in the larger ring, but the opposite is not necessarily true. This is because the larger ring may have additional elements that are not present in the subring.

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