News Bomb blast in Oslo; PM's office building targeted.

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A car bomb exploded in Oslo's governmental quarters, killing several and injuring many, with reports indicating a coordinated terror attack. Following the bombing, gunfire erupted at a Labour Youth camp on Utøya island, where a shooter disguised as a police officer opened fire on teenagers, resulting in multiple casualties. Initial reports suggest at least 10 confirmed dead at Utøya, with many others injured or missing. The situation remains chaotic, with ongoing rescue efforts and a suspect in custody. This incident marks a significant and tragic moment for Norway, raising concerns about national security and the impact of terrorism.
  • #101
Emotions should never prevail the laws. I don't see anything getting achieved in giving him harsh sentence under assumption that he was mentally unstable.
 
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  • #102
rootX said:
Emotions should never prevail the laws. I don't see anything getting achieved to give him harsh sentence under assumption that he was mentally unstable.
It will never be safe to allow this person back into society. If they determine him to be criminally insane, then he should be locked away for the rest of his life.
 
  • #103
rootX said:
Emotions should never prevail the laws. I don't see anything getting achieved in giving him harsh sentence under assumption that he was mentally unstable.

How about under the assumption that if he ever gets out... even at age 80, that he'd just continue his silly crusade and kill more people?
 
  • #104
Evo said:
Can they not convict him of each individual death and make the sentences concurrent? I've seen that here in the US. Where the person might have gotten out of prison, except that they tried the person on the crimes individually, then ruled that the criminal would serve their sentences one after the other.

Surely the killings of the students could be done this way.
That has never been done before in the Norwegian penal system.
The conservative/libertarian Party of Progress has aired the idea before, but as yet, they haven't gained ground on this issue.

I think, however, that no one will even DARE not to do find scrutinize every legal possibility we have to ensure that Mr. Breivik will get full, effective penalty for the rest of his life.

If anything "good" can come out of this case, it may be that the realization may finally dawn upon sufficient numbers of people that if you do something really, REALLY bad, then you have, for ever, lost your rights as a free citizen.

For too long, "rehabilitation of criminals" has been the totally dominant dogma in Norwegian justiciary, as opposed to punishment and safeguarding of the general public.
 
  • #105
rootX said:
Emotions should never prevail the laws. I don't see anything getting achieved in giving him harsh sentence under assumption that he was mentally unstable.

Mentally unstable should not kill or harm other people or be a threat to other people in the society. Its not a question of harsh punishment but it also serve as a reminder to others they cannot kill or harm innocent people.
 
  • #106
Evo said:
It will never be safe to allow this person back into society. If they determine him to be criminally insane, then he should be locked away for the rest of his life.
That is essentially what the "judgment of confinement" is meant to address.
Previously, it has been mainly used against serial pedophiles and rapists.
 
  • #107
arildno said:
That is essentially what the "judgment of confinement" is meant to address.
Previously, it has been mainly used against serial pedophiles and rapists.
How exactly does the "judgment of confinement" work? Is it set in place as a life sentence at the time of sentencing? Or is it some convoluted process that could get bungled? I mean, it would be unthinkable that someone like this would be set loose due to a technicality.
 
  • #108
Evo said:
How exactly does the "judgment of confinement" work? Is it set in place as a life sentence at the time of sentencing? Or is it some convoluted process that could get bungled? I mean, it would be unthinkable that someone like this would be set loose due to a technicality.
I'm not quite sure (I don't know much of it, really).
But, if I have understood it correctly, it does NOT have a time limit, but a regular application process for release, where some sort of evaluating board determines whether it is "safe" to release the culprit, or if he is to be held in confinement for yet a new period.

Also, someone has said that a person can be held in involuntary confinement for a quite different reason: For his own "safety". I don't know if such an option exists.
 
  • #109
My deepest condolences. May strength be granted to the people of Oslo, and of Norway. The children, the young men and the young women massacred there, are our sons and daughters.
 
  • #110
Evo said:
It will never be safe to allow this person back into society. If they determine him to be criminally insane, then he should be locked away for the rest of his life.

Yes I agree but it's not our job to state if he will be safe or not safe given our lack of understanding of the legal framework.

Keeping all opinions/emotions aside, I will be really interested if someone can provide little information on rehabilitation/"handling mentally unstable criminals" programs in Europe.
 
  • #111
rootX said:
Emotions should never prevail the laws. I don't see anything getting achieved in giving him harsh sentence under assumption that he was mentally unstable.
If someone is mentally ill it wouldn't make any sense to release them - you're just enabling them to do the same thing again!
 
  • #112
Did anybody read the motives? Crazy stuff.
 
  • #113
The sentence is 21 years at which they get a chance to get out but if they are still a danger to the public they are automatically sentenced for 5 extra years indefinitely. Also, this man is going to be public enemy number one. Murdering 80+ youth? Terrorist attack on the capital? Anyone who thinks this man will have a fun easy time in prison is sorely mistaken.

He'll face voluntary separation from the rest of the inmates in order to protect himself.

I doubt he'll be getting out if he survives.
 
  • #115
Ken Natton said:
Horrendous events. I could not stop myself, I found myself trying to imagine my feelings if my own son, in his teenage years, went off to some camp with his friends and had his life cut short by some maniac. It’s a thought too grotesque to deal with, but it’s the reality too many Norwegian parents are dealing with right now.

Of course there is an inevitability to the situation that early speculations included the possibility of some revenge attack by Muslim terrorists. Always the point is that Muslim terrorists do not represent the vast majority of Muslim people, any more than Breivik represents the majority of Norwegian people, even those of a nationalist outlook. He has been described as a white Christian fundamentalist. There’s the word that is your common denominator – ‘fundamentalist’. This word is taking on the meaning ‘person prepared to suppress their humanity in the name of dogma’.

Re the bolded text - yes, I agree completely. In general, there is an understandable hesitation in societies to restrain the devout...perhaps that leaves an 'unguarded' path for the mentally unstable to commit horrific crimes.
 
  • #116
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
Chilling words that seem befitting. Not to take things too literally.
 
  • #117
I'm afraid that I haven't actually read most of the posts here, only because I'm somewhat occupied otherwise. My sole reason for logging on tonight was to address this subject. When I first heard of this tragedy, my thoughts immediately turned to my friend Arildno. Unfortunately, I was so gobsmacked that I absolutely could not think of anything appropriate to say. I still can't, but I also can't wait any longer. The best that I can manage is to offer whatever condolences are proper to all Norwegians. To me, and probably to others who live in somewhat more violent environments, this came as the ultimate shock. All of Scandinavia has seemed to me to be the most civilized place on Earth. I know that they (Norwegians, Swedes, Swiss, etc.) are cunning, technologically brilliant, and vicious when in a defensive posture, but the idea that one would turn upon his countrymen just doesn't fit the profile.
I wish that I could offer words of comfort, but I honestly don't know that comfort can be had in a situation like this no matter what one might say. The best that I can do is hope that time (a lot of time) can provide some healing to the families of the victims.
 
  • #118
Your words ARE comforting, Danger.
If not yet for other reasons than reminding me, other Norwegians that a sane, moral world still exists and that it is far, far stronger than every such hate-filled person could imagine.

I wish to quote the the words of one of the Labour Youths who was at Utøya:
"If one man can create so much hate, imagine all the love we can create together".
This was cited at CNN by the aspiring politician Stine Renate Håheim, and repeated by Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg at a national memorial service.

Here is the clip from CNN:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080708
 
  • #119
arildno said:
"If one man can create so much hate, imagine all the love we can create together".

That, my friend, is a very cool statement.
I'm afraid that your link is sort of useless to me because I can't understand either printed or spoken Norwegian. Maybe I can remedy that some time, but for now it's unintelligible to me. If you can point me toward an English translation, I'll be glad to check it out.
One of the first things that I realized about you, back in the first few years of my PF involvement before we became friends, is that one of the things that you are very good at is staying strong. Keep on keepin' on, bro.
 
  • #120
They talk English at the CNN video clip in the link??
 
  • #121
arildno said:
They talk English at the CNN video clip in the link??

The clip itself wouldn't play for me, and all of the printing was in something not English. Maybe it isn't a Mac-friendly site.
 
  • #122
Here's the youtube clip from CNN:
 
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  • #123
yHmmm... okay... it appears that there is a problem with my computer as opposed to the site. I get nothing on audio. Just to be sure, I pulled up a couple of my favourite songs on U-Tube and there is no sound on any of them. It isn't a problem with the speakers, because I tried the headphones and they aren't working either. I am going to pack it in for tonight (it's approaching 4am in my time zone). If I can manage to clear a path to my desk, I'll fire up one of the G-3's tomorrow and see what I can accomplish.
Cheers, pal, and good night, or good morning, or good noon, or whatever the hell it is on your side of the planet. I'll get back to you tomorrow.
 
  • #124
Breivik has been put to isolation for (at least, if I understood correctly) eight weeks. When the trial gets carried out, it will be a closed one, meaning that no media is allowed. So I guess we are not going to hear him explaining his actions for some time.

Breivik himself was enthusiastic about explaining his actions, but apparently he's not getting what he wanted now.
 
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  • #125
jostpuur said:
Breivik has been put to isolation for (at least, if I understood correctly) eight weeks. When the trial gets carried out, it will be a closed one, meaning that no media is allowed. So I guess we are not going to hear him explaining his actions for some time.

Breivik himself was enthusiastic about explaining his actions, but apparently he's not getting what he wanted now.[/QUOTE
1. He was placed in custody for the next 8 weeks. Then, a new meeting must be made if the custody is to be lengthened.
2. He was deprived the right of communication (prohibition of visits, barring of letters, media etc)
3. In addition, a point I haven't heard about before, he was ruled to serve 4 weeks in complete isolation.

I do not, as yet, know what point 3 means; if I should hazard a guess he is forbidden such like walks in the prison compound, any physical interaction with other prisoners, obliged to eat his food in his own cell.
Not sure about that, but I believe he has received the absolute maximum of detention Norwegian law allows for.
 
  • #126
arildno said:
jostpuur said:
Breivik has been put to isolation for (at least, if I understood correctly) eight weeks. When the trial gets carried out, it will be a closed one, meaning that no media is allowed. So I guess we are not going to hear him explaining his actions for some time.

Breivik himself was enthusiastic about explaining his actions, but apparently he's not getting what he wanted now.[/QUOTE
1. He was placed in custody for the next 8 weeks. Then, a new meeting must be made if the custody is to be lengthened.
2. He was deprived the right of communication (prohibition of visits, barring of letters, media etc)
3. In addition, a point I haven't heard about before, he was ruled to serve 4 weeks in complete isolation.

I do not, as yet, know what point 3 means; if I should hazard a guess he is forbidden such like walks in the prison compound, any physical interaction with other prisoners, obliged to eat his food in his own cell.
Not sure about that, but I believe he has received the absolute maximum of detention Norwegian law allows for.

Breivik wants to declare that his attack is the start of new ideology and military actions against the immigrants and multi-cultural societies in Europe. Particularly those who come from Muslims countries. His attack aims to hurt the government and the political party of the president because they are traitors from his political point.
 
  • #127
Some minor good news if you can call it that.
http://news.yahoo.com/norway-police-lower-youth-camp-death-toll-68-151414572.html"
 
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  • #128
Borg said:
Some minor good news if you can call it that.
http://news.yahoo.com/norway-police-lower-youth-camp-death-toll-68-151414572.html"
In this and other articles, I keep reading that he is going to be held for 8 weeks (2 months).

Breivik could tamper with evidence if released, and will be held for at least another two months
Uhm, please tell me that they wouldn't actually release this guy pending trial?
 
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  • #129
No, Evo.
Actually, various "human rights" groups have criticized standard Norwegian custodial practice:
That they think our threshold too low for keeping a pre-trial suspect continuously in jail (but with regular new evaluating meetings every 4th week (or 8th in this case) .

This restrictiveness in regular Norwegian processual law will guarantee his confinement until trial.
 
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  • #130
I hope Norwegian law will prevent this murder from profiting from his crimes. Book-deals, movie-rights, etc should all be off-limits, because there are ghouls that would buy such content.
 
  • #131
arildno said:
No, Evo.
Actually, various "human rights" groups have criticized standard Norwegian custodial practice:
That they think our threshold too low for keeping a pre-trial suspect continuously in jail (but with regular new evaluating meetings every 4th week (or 8th in this case) .

This restrictiveness in regular Norwegian processual law will guarantee his confinement until trial.
We call a spade a spade, the judge will just say "held without possibility of bail". We don't pretend they might have a chance of being released before trial.
 
  • #132
I wonder if he will ever realize that his actions have done his "cause" serious damage. He has turned the entire world against him and people like him. He's done the complete opposite of what he intended to do.
 
  • #133
Evo said:
We call a spade a spade, the judge will just say "held without possibility of bail".
That is not an option in Norwegian law.

So, we circumvent it instead by having a very low threshold for evaluating the need to keep the suspect behind bars instead.

Strauss-Kahn, for example, would NOT have been released on bail in Norway, until the case against him unravelled.
 
  • #134
Evo said:
I wonder if he will ever realize that his actions have done his "cause" serious damage. He has turned the entire world against him and people like him. He's done the complete opposite of what he intended to do.
For him, I guess, seeing "his cause" go to pieces is probably the worst punishment we may inflict on him.
But, who knows?
Perhaps getting wilted salad with his dinner will cause him unspeakable grief as well?
I really do not care about what emotions he may have or not.

What I am sad about is that I don't live in a civilized country like Japan or the United States where the citizenry is given the option to symbolically, and emotionally, re-take control of civil society through the dread power of execution.

I do not want this individual to exist anymore.
 
  • #135
arildno said:
For him, I guess, seeing "his cause" go to pieces is probably the worst punishment we may inflict on him.
But, who knows?
Perhaps getting wilted salad with his dinner will cause him unspeakable grief as well?
I really do not care about what emotions he may have or not.

What I am sad about is that I don't live in a civilized country like Japan or the United States where the citizenry is given the option to symbolically, and emotionally, re-take control of civil society through the dread power of execution.

I do not want this individual to exist anymore.
I had a thread on the death penalty where guilt was known beyond a shadow of a doubt, and people actually posted that there was no way that there could ever be no doubt. :rolleyes:
 
  • #136
Evo said:
I had a thread on the death penalty where guilt was known beyond a shadow of a doubt, and people actually posted that there was no way that there could ever be no doubt. :rolleyes:
Yes.
Many unintelligent people make the logical fallacy that because there exist many cases where rational doubts as to guilt DO exist, therefore ALL cases include sufficient amounts of doubt to prohibit death as a punitive option.
 
  • #137
Evo said:
I wonder if he will ever realize that his actions have done his "cause" serious damage. He has turned the entire world against him and people like him. He's done the complete opposite of what he intended to do.

arildno said:
For him, I guess, seeing "his cause" go to pieces is probably the worst punishment we may inflict on him.

We all want to find some 'logic' and some 'answers', even in a complete 'nutcase situation' like this. My personal guess – we’re not going to find anything that makes any sense whatsoever, regarding this lowlife beast.

He thinks he’s a Knights Templar (for real), on a crusade to save Europe (and the planet) from various "lethal threats" (Muslims, Communists, Marxists, EU, UN, Social Democrats in Norway and Sweden, etc, etc). And he’s convinced that all these various "powers" are working together to throw him and all other "Proper Europeans" over the 'cliff'.

... = MEGA 'tin foil hat' ...

I listen to the radio today, and a professor in psychiatry said that if he ever get healthy, and fully understand what he has done – he will kill himself.

My guess is that he will never be let out of prison (AFAIK, as long as he’s considered dangerous, he will get another 5 years, and so on and so forth).

Today there have been manifestations in Norway and in the other Nordic countries. In Oslo 200,000+ people gathered to march for peace!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFqE1-txwoI

And when the rescue team from the island showed up, there was standing ovations.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF39O4XKB-8



P.S. His father (a former diplomat), now living in France, http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressen.se%2Fnyheter%2F1.2509476%2Fpappan-han-borde-tagit-sitt-eget-liv&act=url"...
 
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  • #138
arildno said:
... A much more "interesting" web connection of Anders Behring Breivik is some Swedish Neonazi site in which how to make such a bomb was actually discussed.

That wouldn’t surprise me one bit. We have a whole bunch of them... and the connection to Sweden is clear. There is one whole paragraph in the 'manifest' "dedicated" to Sweden, and 9,000+ Swedes are threaten to death, including the whole political system (except Sverigedemokraterna, of course).

On Swedish TV they said that he ordered the fertilizers (6 tons?) from Poland (in December), via internet, and it was delivered to Karlstad (Sweden), where he picked it up. And they say that the Norwegian police made a registration about this...

I have no idea if there’s any substance in the rumors that there are other 'cells' out there, preparing more terrorist attacks... if it’s true, it’s somewhat disturbing because some of the targets in the manifest is all our nuclear plants and oil refineries... but it’s probably just crazy rumors...
 
  • #139
DevilsAvocado said:
He thinks he’s a Knights Templar (for real), on a crusade to save Europe (and the planet) from various "lethal threats" (Muslims, Communists, Marxists, EU, UN, Social Democrats in Norway and Sweden, etc, etc). And he’s convinced that all these various "powers" are working together to throw him and all other "Proper Europeans" over the 'cliff'.

Read some Fukuyama, extrapolate from that, and you'll start to believe the same. He's a right-wing fundamentalist/terrorist who tries to start a civil war by bringing back to life the knights templars; his ideology is pretty common for right-wing.

It's too easy to say that he is insane. It's ideological violence. Same as nazism was, RAF was, KKK racial hangings were, jihadism is, or even -taken to an extreme- an institutionalized version where vietnamese kids ended up being bombed with napalm was.

I say it again, it's too easy to dismiss him as a nutcase since history only shows that ideological violence is the norm, not the exception. I would call ideological violence pretty insane, but I don't close my eyes to that many, many people are inclined to it, practice it, or out-source it to their government.

Sorry to say, but if right-wing populism continues like it does it Europe at the moment, in forty years from now he may be considered a hero, not a nutcase.
 
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  • #140
Our hearts go out to the people of Norway. What a terrible, senseless tragedy.
 
  • #141
Evo said:
I had a thread on the death penalty where guilt was known beyond a shadow of a doubt, and people actually posted that there was no way that there could ever be no doubt. :rolleyes:

unfortunately, prosecutorial misconduct is a continual problem.
 
  • #142
Breivik has admitted that the bombing in Oslo was meant as a DIVERSION, in order to draw all available police to that area, in order to maximize the time he would have on his murder spree at Utøya.
Grudgingly, the police concedes that the havoc and chaos in Oslo had the predictable effect of delaying full mobilization to the Utøya situation, possibly with as much as an hour. ABB was able to massacre youths for 90 minutes until he surrendered.

He is only "partially satisfied" by his action, because he was too late at Utøya to execute earlier prime minister Gro Harlem Brundtland his main symbolic target, along with as many Labour Youths he could manage.

(He regarded the current prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg as an "unimportant" goal, relative to Gro Harlem Brundtland.)
 
  • #144
Is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group" really a good abbreviation for a terrorist... in this part of the world...? :rolleyes:
 
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  • #145
MarcoD said:
Read some Fukuyama, extrapolate from that, and you'll start to believe the same. He's a right-wing fundamentalist/terrorist who tries to start a civil war by bringing back to life the knights templars; his ideology is pretty common for right-wing.

It's too easy to say that he is insane. It's ideological violence. Same as nazism was, RAF was, KKK racial hangings were, jihadism is, or even -taken to an extreme- an institutionalized version where vietnamese kids ended up being bombed with napalm was.

I say it again, it's too easy to dismiss him as a nutcase since history only shows that ideological violence is the norm, not the exception. I would call ideological violence pretty insane, but I don't close my eyes to that many, many people are inclined to it, practice it, or out-source it to their government.

Well, that’s a pretty dull view on humanity, isn’t it? All Germans in the 30-40's was coldblooded mass-murderers?? Do you really believe this? :bugeye:

I think an absolute majority of the German people was victims of their own history, economy, and a small but very loud gang of psychopath goons that used violence and threats to scare the majority to obey their crazy "ideology".

The Nazis at first thought they could use "Ordinary Army Fritz" to "get rid" of "the problem" by gun down civilians in any close-by ditch. It didn’t work... "Ordinary Fritz" lost his mind after a few experiences of this brutal and surreal madness, and became mentally ill and completely "useless" to the Nazis. And we all know how the Nazis solved "the problem" in the end...

The Big Freak himself had a history of extreme and perverted sexuality, and he was an amphetamine junky, on top of the rest of the madness. Beyond completely nuts, he had a bunch of 'ordinary diseases' (that could probably drive a completely normal man mad); irritable bowel syndrome, skin lesions, irregular heartbeat, Parkinson's disease, syphilis, tinnitus, Asperger syndrome, sinus infection, real bad teeth and gums infection, Monorchism (only one testicle).

And his brutal and drunken father Alois Hitler, gave him all the genes and 'culture' ever needed:

[PLAIN]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Alois_Hitler_last_years.jpg

I agree that Behring Breivik is a 'mental mystery'. If it’s true that he planned this terror attack for 9 years, and stayed focused all this time, completely alone – it doesn’t fit the common picture of a psycho madman. But we don’t know exactly what happened yet, and besides – a professor in psychiatry said that this behavior is possible, yet it’s extremely unusual (thank god).

So, what is your source for claiming Behring Breivik perfectly normal??

If you try to imagine the completely horrendous situation out on the island, for a moment, I’m sure you agree that this is not normal human behavior in any sence. It doesn’t matter how far out on any right or left wing you are – this is not something a normal human could carry through, for several hours. It’s just too insane...

Behring Breivik used illegal ammunition, so called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet" , that does horrific things to human bodies when hitting. Behring Breivik was not heavily drugged when committing this awful crime; he did it in cold blood, one by one.

(You also have to remember that he did not have any military experience at all. He was relieved his military service.)

This is not normal by any standards, and I think you understand this as well.

The poor teenagers surviving this tragedy will have a lot of horrendous 'images' to process in the coming years...

MarcoD said:
Sorry to say, but if right-wing populism continues like it does it Europe at the moment, in forty years from now he may be considered a hero, not a nutcase.

I don’t agree, and frankly it’s almost as nutty as some of the Behring Breivik ideas. Only if you think that this crazy moron has something substantial to say to the world, this will be possible.

We are already hundreds of millions in deep agreement that this is not the case; all he says is crazy mumbo-jumbo.

My personal guess is that all these extremists – whether it’s lunatic Jihadists or mentally ill extreme-right-wings or the "usual dictator" – they all have to fight free information, and to be scrutinized by well informed internet users all over the world. Just look at Egypt and Tunisia...

Do you really think that this guy would have been successful, roaring in the CNN studio?? :bugeye:

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-10460%2C_Adolf_Hitler%2C_Rednerposen.jpg/500px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-10460%2C_Adolf_Hitler%2C_Rednerposen.jpg[/URL]

People would laugh their pants off.



"The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." -- Albert Einstein​
 
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  • #146
Did you all hear about Glenn Beck's comments

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like the Hitler Youth, or, whatever. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics. Disturbing."
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Glenn+Beck+compares+Norwegian+youth+camp+Hitler+Youth/5160627/story.html

Something like this happens but he finds the camp itself disturbing?!
 
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  • #147
I don't think he was a Neo-Nazi. He was for the Knights Templar (or something of that sort). I similar theme to the Nazis but not the same.

These are some holy Templar delusions. Probably the most powerful that exist.

templar.jpg
 
  • #149
And Maine has Boy's State and Girl's State at which young people can set up and run mock governments. It's a good exercise in civics. Hardly a Hitler-youth movement. Still, Beck is in it for ratings, so his lack of sensitivity is not surprising.
 
  • #150
Ivan Seeking said:
Did you all hear about Glenn Beck's comments


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Glenn+Beck+compares+Norwegian+youth+camp+Hitler+Youth/5160627/story.html

Something like this happens but he finds the camp itself disturbing?!

The obscenity of Glenn Beck in this regard is quite extra-ordinary, almost at Fred Phelps level (I'm sure that un-American American already has praised ABBs actions as God's punishment for Norwegians commitment to sodomy).

Also, Glenn Beck is wrong.
The tradition of Utøya is, of course, in addition, a lot of fun, singing and making friends.
Making boy&girlfriends is also a major concern and, to Fred Phelps' probable consternation, in ALL varieties.
 
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