Correct operation for coordinates of hoop particle system?

In summary, the conversation discusses the setup of a problem using the Lagrangian and the question of how the x-coordinate for the particle is determined. It is noted that the positive direction for the kinematic variables must be defined and that this will determine the signs in the equation for the x-coordinate. The direction of increase for the variables and the direction of x are not specified in the problem statement or solution. It is also mentioned that the fact that the CM of the hoop moves opposite to the particle's motion is not relevant and will be determined by solving the equations of motion with appropriate initial conditions.
  • #1
FallenApple
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Homework Statement


All in the pic below. Part of the solution presented. Didn't present the whole thing as that would clutter the page.

I just want to know how they set up the x coordinate for the particle.

HoopAndRing.png

Homework Equations


This problem is just about using the lagragian. So my issue is with the first line in the solution. x=R*theta+R*sin(phi) where x is presumably the position of the particle relative to the lab frame. This is just using gallian relativity.

The Attempt at a Solution



Shouldn't it be x=R*theta--R*sin(phi) instead? We have to minus the x position of the particle relative to the hoop frame from the x position of the hoop itself since we know that they are in opposite directions. As the particle slides down from the right moving to the left, the CM of the hoop must move right.
 
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  • #2
Part of the setup of a problem is to define the positive direction for the kinematic variables. In the problem statement and in the solution, the variables ##x, y, \theta## and ##\phi## are not defined. In particular, there is no indication whether ##\theta## increases in the counterclockwise direction or the clockwise direction. Likewise, for ##\phi##. Also, there is no indication if ##x## is positive to the right or to the left. These definitions will determine the signs in ##x = \pm R\theta \pm R \sin \phi##. The fact that the CM of the hoop moves opposite to the particle's motion is not relevant here. This fact will follow from solving the equations of motion with the appropriate initial conditions.
 
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  • #3
TSny said:
Part of the setup of a problem is to define the positive direction for the kinematic variables. In the problem statement and in the solution, the variables ##x, y, \theta## and ##\phi## are not defined. In particular, there is no indication whether ##\theta## increases in the counterclockwise direction or the clockwise direction. Likewise, for ##\phi##. Also, there is no indication if ##x## is positive to the right or to the left. These definitions will determine the signs in ##x = \pm R\theta \pm R \sin \phi##. The fact that the CM of the hoop moves opposite to the particle's motion is not relevant here. This fact will follow from solving the equations of motion with the appropriate initial conditions.

Thanks, that makes sense. Everything is relative to the coordinate set up.
 

What is a hoop particle system?

A hoop particle system is a type of simulation used in physics and computer graphics, where particles are confined to move along the surface of a hoop or circle. This system is often used to model the movement and interactions of particles in a circular or spherical environment.

How are the coordinates of a hoop particle system calculated?

The coordinates of a hoop particle system are typically calculated using a combination of mathematical equations and algorithms that take into account the position, velocity, and acceleration of each individual particle. These calculations are often performed in a computer program or simulation, allowing for accurate and dynamic movement of the particles.

What is the correct operation for a hoop particle system?

The correct operation for a hoop particle system involves accurately setting the initial conditions for the particles, such as their starting positions and velocities, as well as implementing the necessary equations and algorithms to simulate their movement over time. It is also important to consider factors such as friction, gravity, and any other forces that may affect the particles' motion.

What are some real-world applications of hoop particle systems?

Hoop particle systems have various real-world applications, including in physics simulations, computer graphics, and even in the design and testing of roller coasters and other circular rides. They can also be used to model the behavior of particles in a circular vessel, such as in a centrifuge or a particle accelerator.

What are the limitations of hoop particle systems?

One limitation of hoop particle systems is that they are limited to modeling particles in a circular or spherical environment. They may not accurately represent the behavior of particles in other shapes or environments. Additionally, these systems may become computationally expensive and may require significant processing power as the number of particles increases.

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