Finding the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system

In summary, the problem involves finding the Lagrangian L for a system consisting of a wheel with mass m and radius r that rolls inside a larger cylinder with radius R, with a pendulum of length l and mass m attached to its center. The pendulum has angles theta1 and theta2 from equilibrium. The kinetic and potential energies for each mass are calculated separately, but there seems to be a missing factor in the equation for the rotational kinetic energy of the wheel, which may be due to incomplete specifications of the wheel's shape.
  • #1
alivedude
58
5

Homework Statement



Ok so I need to find the Lagrangian ## L ## for this system below, I have drawn some poor sketch in paint but I think its pretty easy to see what i mean

2qd3c08.jpg


Its a wheel with mass ##m## and radius ##r## that rolls inside a big cylinder with radius ##R## and at the center of the wheel there is a pendulum attached. The pendulum has a length ##l## and a mass ##m## (same ##m##) attached at the end of it and the string can be threated as massless. The angles from equilibirum is ##\theta_1## and ##\theta_2##.

I think that is all that is needed

Homework Equations



##L = T- V##

##T = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 ##

## V = mgh ##

The Attempt at a Solution



OK so this is what I have been thinking so far.

First of I did the substitution ##l_1 = R-r ## and ##l_2=l##

We have calculate the kinetic and potential energy for each mass separatly so for the wheel we have

##
T_1 = \frac{1}{2}ml_1^2 \dot{\theta_1}^2 \\
V_1 = -mgl_1cos\theta
##

and for the pendulum there is a little bit more tricky

##
T_2 = \frac{1}{2}m[\frac{d}{dt}(l_1sin \theta_1+ l_2 sin \theta_2)]^2+\frac{1}{2}m[\frac{d}{dt}(-l_1cos \theta_1- l_2 cos \theta_2)]^2 \\
V_2 =-mg(l_1cos\theta_1+l_2cos \theta_2)
##

After this I form ## L = T_1 + T_2 - V_1 - V_2 ## and just carry out the algebra. But when I use this later on for Lagrange equations of motion I get some factors wrong in the answe. The dimensions and everything else is right and I have checked so many times now so I am starting to think that something might be wrong in the energys above, have I missed something?
 
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  • #2
alivedude said:
have I missed something?
I can see one thing that seems to be missing, which is the rotational kinetic energy of the wheel, which is ##\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2## where ##I## is the wheel's moment of inertia and ##\omega## is its rotational velocity.
The problem is incompletely specified because it doesn't tell us the shape of the wheel - eg is it a solid disc or more like a ring? I suggest you assume it is a uniform disk, and state that in your answer.
 
Last edited:

1. What is a wheel-pendulum system?

A wheel-pendulum system is a mechanical system that consists of a wheel attached to a pivot point, with a pendulum hanging from the wheel's center. The motion of the pendulum is affected by the rotation of the wheel, creating a unique dynamic system.

2. Why is it important to find the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system?

The Lagrangian is a mathematical function that describes the dynamics of a system. By finding the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system, we can understand the motion of the system and analyze its behavior under different conditions, which is crucial for understanding and designing complex mechanical systems.

3. How is the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system calculated?

The Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system is calculated by using the Lagrangian formalism, which involves determining the kinetic and potential energy of the system and then applying the Euler-Lagrange equations. These equations help us find the equations of motion for the system, which can then be used to predict its behavior.

4. Can the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system be simplified?

Yes, the Lagrangian for a wheel-pendulum system can be simplified by considering certain assumptions, such as negligible friction or small oscillations. This can make the calculations easier and provide a more simplified model of the system, although it may not accurately represent the actual system in all cases.

5. What are some real-world applications of a wheel-pendulum system?

A wheel-pendulum system has a wide range of applications, including in robotics, mechanical engineering, and physics research. It can be used as a model for studying dynamic systems and can also be applied in designing devices such as gyroscopes, pendulum clocks, and even amusement park rides.

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