Help with coupled spring and pendulum system

In summary, the conversation discusses finding the equation of motion for a coupled system with a block and a pendulum on a frictionless surface. The red line indicates equilibrium, where x1 and x2 are both 0. The small angle approximation is used and the equations of motion are found by taking the horizontal and vertical forces of each component. The spring force should also be included in the equation of horizontal motion for the block. However, there is difficulty in eliminating T and making Fx2 correct without using more advanced techniques. The conversation concludes with the question of whether the spring acts on the block or the pendulum and the suggestion to include free body diagrams.
  • #1
J.Sterling47
8
0

Homework Statement


Given the system in the image below, I need to find the equation of motions for the coupled system. The surface where the block moves is frictionless. The red line is position where the block is at equilibrium. At equilbrium x1 and x2 = 0. After finding the equation of motion for the coupled system, I need to find the normal modes which I can do but I'm having trouble finding first part. Also the angle is small angle approximation.
http://imgur.com/JPzK1Jn
http://imgur.com/JPzK1Jn

Homework Equations


F= ma
sinθ = tanθ = θ = [x2 - x1]/L

The Attempt at a Solution


Ok so taking the horizontal and vertical forces of each:

Block:
Fx1 = -kx1 - Tsinθ
Fy1 = N - mg - Tcosθ

Mass on Pendulum:

Fx2 = Tsinθ **************
Fy2 = mg - Tcosθ*****I feel like the spring should add a force here, but I'm not sure how.
If I proceed adding a -kx1 to Fx2 and solving for the equations of motion using the small angle approximation I get

a1 = -k/mx1 + T/Lm(x2 - x1)

and a2 the same which is wrong. Also I cannot get rid of T. I am not so concerned over the normal modes because I can do that after. We did not do any langrange stuff so I am not allowed to use it. Also because of the small angle, I asked if I was allowed to approximate the vertical displacement for the pendulum to be zero, but I cannot so I have to find another way.
 
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  • #2
You have written four equations of motion, but this system only has two degrees of freedom. You should be able to eliminate some variables after you get your equations of motion correct.

To be sure, the spring force does enter into the equation of horizontal motion for the block. How do springs generate force?
 
  • #3
OldEngr63 said:
You have written four equations of motion, but this system only has two degrees of freedom. You should be able to eliminate some variables after you get your equations of motion correct.

To be sure, the spring force does enter into the equation of horizontal motion for the block. How do springs generate force?

Yeah I'm stuck here. I can't figure out how to eliminate T and I'm also unsure of how to make Fx2 correct. My problem is that I'm very limited with techniques here, as this is pretty much the beginning of an intro to classical mechanics.

I'm pretty sure adding -kx1 to horizontal motion of the pendulum is incorrect as then the two equations that I care about are identical which is wrong. -kx2 wouldn't make much sense.
 
  • #4
Does the spring act on the block or on the pendulum?

Where are your FBDs?
 
  • #5


I would suggest approaching this problem by considering the system as a whole, rather than breaking it down into individual forces for each component. This will allow you to use the concept of conservation of energy to find the equations of motion.

First, you can define the potential energy of the system as the sum of the potential energies of the two components:
U = 1/2kx1^2 + mgh

Next, you can define the kinetic energy of the system as the sum of the kinetic energies of the two components:
K = 1/2mv1^2 + 1/2Iω^2

Using the small angle approximation, you can express the angular velocity of the pendulum in terms of the displacement of the mass on the pendulum:
ω = (x2-x1)/L

Combining the potential and kinetic energies and taking the derivatives with respect to time, you can obtain the equations of motion for the system:
d^2x1/dt^2 = -k/mx1 + (x2-x1)/L * d^2x2/dt^2
d^2x2/dt^2 = -g/L * x2 + (x1-x2)/L * d^2x1/dt^2

These two equations, along with the initial conditions of x1 = x2 = 0 and their derivatives equal to zero at equilibrium, can be solved to find the normal modes of the system.
 

1. What is a coupled spring and pendulum system?

A coupled spring and pendulum system is a mechanical system that consists of a mass attached to a spring and a pendulum. The mass is connected to the spring and the pendulum is attached to the mass, creating a complex system that exhibits both oscillatory and rotational motion.

2. What are the equations that govern a coupled spring and pendulum system?

The equations that govern a coupled spring and pendulum system are the equations of motion for a spring and a pendulum, which are used to describe the position, velocity, and acceleration of the mass and the pendulum. These equations can be solved using techniques such as differential equations and matrix algebra.

3. How do the parameters of the system affect its behavior?

The parameters of the system, such as the mass, spring constant, and length of the pendulum, can affect the behavior of the system. These parameters can change the natural frequency and amplitude of the system, causing it to exhibit different types of motion, such as simple harmonic motion or chaotic behavior.

4. How can a coupled spring and pendulum system be used in real-world applications?

Coupled spring and pendulum systems have various real-world applications, such as in shock absorbers in vehicles, seismometers for measuring earthquakes, and in mechanical clocks. They are also used in research to study complex motion and chaotic behavior.

5. What are some common challenges when working with a coupled spring and pendulum system?

Common challenges when working with a coupled spring and pendulum system include accurately modeling the system and its parameters, dealing with non-linear behavior, and solving the complex equations of motion. It can also be challenging to set up the physical system and measure its behavior accurately.

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