How can an event which has length and time have L = 0?

In summary, the book chapter on page 13 of David Morin's "Relativity" says that an event has length if and only if it has a location and time.
  • #1
rgtr
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Homework Statement
How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.
Relevant Equations
No equation.
I apologize if this is a stupid question I just always thought length involves 2 points to have a length at different locations.
 
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  • #2
rgtr said:
Homework Statement:: How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.
Relevant Equations:: No equation.

I apologize if this is a stupid question I just always thought length involves 2 points to have a length at different locations.
I agree with what what little you've said ##-## it looks to me like you haven't actually posed a well-formed question ##-## yes, to have a length dimension, you need at least one point to start with, and another for extension, right? What question was posed to you?
 
  • #3
Your question is a bit vague.
You've specified one data point, L, which you have set to 0.
No problem so far, but it doesn't say much.

An event is a point, defined by four coordinates such as x, y, z, t.

If you are deciding that one of those dimensions, say, x, has a value of L, which is equal to zero. then you only need three more to define an event.I suspect what is happening is that you are confusing an event (a point x, y, z, t) with a physically extant object (Δx>0, Δy>0, Δz>0 ,Δt>0).
 
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  • #4
Wow, @DaveC426913, I think that you're not wrong to go to 4d, but I wanted to be gentle and stay 1d and 2d for a minute first. :wink:
 
  • #5
sysprog said:
Wow, @DaveC426913, I think that you're not wrong to go to 4d, but I wanted to be gentle and stay 1d and 2d for a minute first. :wink:
I've been on PF a long time. If I had described an event with any less than 4 coordinates, I'd bet my pretty blue bonnet someone would step in with "Welll, ACKtually..."

:oldbiggrin:[EDIT]
Aaaaaaand I just noticed that this is a homework question, so I really should have stayed within the confines of the question as-posed.
 
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  • #6
Is the entire homework question "How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.".
 
  • #7
DaveC426913 said:
. . . an event with any less than 4 coordinates . . .
Maybe it should have been said as 'fewer than' rather than "less than", given that "4" is a number of co-ordinates in your remark here, and not an amount ##-## yes, I'm being fussy ##\dots## :wink:
 
  • #8
hmmm27 said:
Is the entire homework question "How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.".
I imagine, as apparently you do, that we haven't been given the entirety of the original question.
 
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  • #9
rgtr said:
Homework Statement:: How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.
Relevant Equations:: No equation.

I apologize if this is a stupid question I just always thought length involves 2 points to have a length at different locations.
An event has "position", not "length". It answers the question: "where was it?", not "how big was it?"
An event has "time", not "duration". It answers the question: "when was it?", not "how long did it take?"
 
  • #10
hmmm27 said:
Is the entire homework question "How can an event which has length and time have L = 0.".
Not exactly I was reading a book and just was confused by this.
 
  • #11
rgtr said:
Not exactly I was reading a book and just was confused by this.
So - for context - what was the (book) question/statement that elicited the confusion ?
 
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  • #12
rgtr said:
Not exactly I was reading a book and just was confused by this.
What book? You have a book that says an event has a length of zero but also has a length L (that is not zero)?
 
  • #14
rgtr said:
Not exactly I was reading a book and just was confused by this.
Thanks for now having given us that link to the book chapter https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/david-morin/files/relativity_chap_1.pdf ##-## it said parenthethically on page 13 of 70:

(The one exception is when ℓ ′ = 0, in which case the two events happen at the same place and same time in all frames.)​
That refers to two events; not to a single event, as your question, "How can an event which has length and time have L = 0" seems to attempt to do ##-## as @jbriggs444 pointed out, a single location doesn't have length, and a single event doesn't have duration (I'll add for the sake of attempted funniness: unless maybe the event is e.g. a social event, such as a dinner party, or the Oscars, or a slap).
 
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1. How can an event have both length and time?

An event can have both length and time because these are two fundamental properties of the universe. Length refers to the physical distance between two points, while time is the measure of the duration of an event. Both of these properties are necessary to fully describe the motion and interactions of objects in the universe.

2. How can an event have L = 0?

An event having L = 0 means that the length of the event is equal to zero. This can occur in situations where the two points involved in the event are at the same location, resulting in a distance of zero between them. For example, if an object remains stationary at a single point, the length of its event would be equal to zero.

3. Can an event with L = 0 still have a duration in time?

Yes, an event with L = 0 can still have a duration in time. This is because time is a separate property from length and can still be measured even if the length of the event is equal to zero. For example, a stationary object may still experience changes in time, such as aging or the passing of seconds.

4. How does the concept of L = 0 relate to the theory of relativity?

The concept of L = 0 is a fundamental principle in the theory of relativity. In special relativity, the length of an event can appear differently to observers depending on their relative motion. However, the duration of the event will always be the same for all observers, regardless of their frame of reference. This is known as time dilation and is a key component of the theory of relativity.

5. Are there any real-life examples of events with L = 0?

Yes, there are real-life examples of events with L = 0. One example is the collision of two subatomic particles, such as protons, in a particle accelerator. In this case, the particles are so small and moving at incredibly high speeds that the length of the event of their collision can be considered negligible. Another example is the formation of a black hole, where the matter collapses to a single point and the length of the event becomes zero.

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