Need Advice: Struggling with Physics & Programming

[Mulz]

I don't even know what part of programming I struggle with, it's everything. I read through the course material but still feel as if they are inadequate resources when trying to solve a problem. I can't even solve the most basic programming problems, it all makes no sense to me.

In mathematics, I'm also quite slow, compared to my peers I'm really stupid. I'm also struggling a bit here though it's mostly about Linear algebra as opposed to Variable analysis which I find to make a lot of sense. We haven't gotten to the actual physics, only mathematics and programming.

Everyone is my class appear to be very smart, they are quickly able to understand and work with the problems whereas I'm struggling with the basics, I don't know why, probably my intelligence.

What should I do?

I study more than 3 hours in my spare time EVERYDAY yet I struggle a lot, only a couple of days have passed since we started. I really don't want to drop out. I haven't failed any exams or anything, still too early for that, I'm just very worried about failing in the future, I put a lot of hours to prevent failure but it seems as if that won't happen.

Any suggestions? I'm studying Medical Physics in another country, it's not the same as the US.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

My undergrad degree in Physics was a 60 hour a week job. 15-16 hours a week in class. The balance working outside of class.

Sorry if you were misinformed regarding what you signed up for. You do need to decide whether to buck up and handle it or drop out.

 

[Mulz]

My undergrad degree in Physics was a 60 hour a week job. 15-16 hours a week in class. The balance working outside of class.

Sorry if you were misinformed regarding what you signed up for. You do need to decide whether to buck up and handle it or drop out.

What do you mean?

I'm studying several hours outside of class everyday and attending to every lecture. Just seem as if it's impossible for me to learn because of how dumb I am.

 

[NFuller]

I'm studying several hours outside of class everyday and attending to every lecture. Just seem as if it's impossible for me to learn because of how dumb I am.

If you are studying this hard and are feeling that you are not smart enough to pass the class, then the problem is not with you, it is with the education system in your country.

 

[Mulz]

If you are studying this hard and are feeling that you are not smart enough to pass the class, then the problem is not with you, it is with the education system in your country.

I wish that was true but unfortunately that is not the case, other students in my class doesn't seem to struggle that much. They get the assignments done and are able to understand the material thoroughly. I however struggle with the basics, in programming and in mathematics. Less so in math because it actually makes sense to me, just that it can be difficult.

I'm specifically talking about Matlab programming, it's just incredibly difficult and for some reason it's mandatory we use it.

 

[phyzguy]

If you are studying this hard and are feeling that you are not smart enough to pass the class, then the problem is not with you, it is with the education system in your country.

Are you saying that the educational system should adjust so that anyone can pass the class, no matter what their innate abilities?

 

[NFuller]

Are you saying that the educational system should adjust so that anyone can pass the class, no matter what their innate abilities?

Of course not. I am saying that the system should not be failing diligent students. I have never come across a student, who was genuinely trying their hardest, and could not pass my class. I have seen other classes though where the material was so pedantic and the lesson plan so abstruse that students, who I thought were very intelligent, were struggling. The OP says he is studying for several hours a day and attending all lectures. I see no reason why ANYONE who puts forth such effort could not learn the material and pass the class.

 

[S.G. Janssens]

I'm also struggling a bit here though it's mostly about Linear algebra

I'm specifically talking about Matlab programming, it's just incredibly difficult and for some reason it's mandatory we use it.

MATLAB is really not difficult to use once you have a good understanding of matrix manipulation, and the latter is part of introductory linear algebra.

Practise a lot with matrices (indexing, slicing, matrix-vector and matrix-matrix mutiplication, transposition, etc.) both on paper as well as in MATLAB, and I think you will see steady improvements in both courses.

Any suggestions?

Give it time, continue the effort, it is way too early for definite conclusions.

 

[J-rod]

It could be the style of study you're using isn't the most efficient/effective. Perhaps a bit of research into your personal pedagogy could have the desired effect. Youtube has many great vids on different note-taking strategies, maybe one of these can improve your situation. Most importantly, finding at least 1 other person in the class you can communicate with about your specific struggles per topic, will help more than any of the aforementioned strats.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Of course not. I am saying that the system should not be failing diligent students. I have never come across a student, who was genuinely trying their hardest, and could not pass my class.

I have. When they get passed through all their high school algebra, geometry, and pre-calc classes without even basic Algebra 1 skills, they are going to struggle mightily in college Calculus and Physics. In some cases, it's just a matter of knocking off the rust and addressing some weak areas. But when Algebra 1 skills are completely non-existent passing Physics or Calculus is about as likely as passing law school without being able to read.

I've been at institutions that expected Physics and Math profs to dumb down their classes enough so that students without Algebra 1 skills could pass. Those are the profs who have sold their integrity for a paycheck - more common in some areas of the country than we would like to admit.

 

[CrysPhys]

Of course not. I am saying that the system should not be failing diligent students. I have never come across a student, who was genuinely trying their hardest, and could not pass my class. I have seen other classes though where the material was so pedantic and the lesson plan so abstruse that students, who I thought were very intelligent, were struggling. The OP says he is studying for several hours a day and attending all lectures. I see no reason why ANYONE who puts forth such effort could not learn the material and pass the class.

This makes no sense to me. If say 50% of the class were failing, then something is amiss with the class. But by the OP's own admission, the other students seem to be doing just fine, so the problem lies with the OP, not with the class. Sometimes diligence just isn't enough. I remember way back in my undergrad days at an elite university, one student transferred in from a community college at the start of the sophomore year [physics major] because his professors at the community college thought he was too brilliant to languish at the community college. Well, by the end of the year, he realized he just couldn't cut it at the level of the other students ... and switched his major from physics to philosophy.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

What do you mean?

I'm studying several hours outside of class everyday and attending to every lecture. Just seem as if it's impossible for me to learn because of how dumb I am.

I doubt you are dumb. You may have been the victim of gifting grades in earlier math and science courses so you arrived in your current situation without a background as strong as you would like. It happened to me too. As a product of the Louisiana public school system, I arrived in Calculus at University without knowing what a function is.

That makes it pretty hard to understand what the limit definition of a derivative is. I worked very hard. I overcame my deficiencies. I succeeded.

 

[Choppy]

One thing that a lot of students experience when they first get to university is an academic bottleneck. Physics majors tend to have done quite well in high school - especially in physics and math classes. But in high school they were competing with the general population - more or less. In university, the sample they are among are the top ~10% of the general population, most who have a passion for physics. In this situation it's quite common to go from that top 10% to "average."

It's also important to remember often it can seem like people are smarter than they are. When a professor asks a question, you don't hear much from the 99 students in the class who don't know the answer. You hear from the one or two who do. When students hand in assignments, they're complete. Unless you've worked on them together, you don't see them staying up all night struggling as you have. Some will even lie about how easy it was, so that no one will know that they're struggling too.

And some students just plain have more experience or have had a better high school education. The first year or so of university tends to be a great equalizer. Sometimes student don't realize how good they've had it until their second year, when they're all of a sudden hit with material that their high school classes didn't prepare them for, and now they don't have the study skills they need.

So at what point do you decide that it's time to throw in the towel, vs continuing to push on?
That's a hard question to answer. For me one of the big keys is whether or not you still want to be there. The point of an education is just that - an education. It's not a competition. Things like graduate school admissions and scholarships are competitive processes, sure. And often students are graded relative to one another. But at the end of the day, you're there to educate yourself and it's important to get the education that you want.

Another major factor to consider is whether you've truly exhausted all of your resources. You've reached a spot right now where you feel you can't improve, but is that because you really can't, or because you just don't know how? Talk to your professors, your TAs, your academic advisors, your university's academic resource centre, your classmates. Figure out if those people who seem like they really know the material are doing anything differently from you in terms of how they study. Experiment with different approaches to your studies. Try reading different books.

Also you may want to think about what other direction you would want to take if this doesn't work out. If you spend all those extra hours studying thinking about how wonderful it would be to major in history, then you have to consider whether or not you're on the right path for you. If you're still pretty focussed on your current path, it could be the right one.

Some additional tips:

• The vast majority of STEM coursework is about problem-solving. Just reading and trying to understand without much "doing" isn't going to cut it. Make sure that you're spending as much time as possible solving problems. Or in the case of MATLAB/coding classes, make sure you're writing actual code until it works and works well.
• Buddy up with other students if you can. The great thing about being around people who are "smarter" than you is that you can learn a lot from them. If you're the smartest guy/gal in the room, you won't ever get that kind of opportunity. Do make sure that you're trying to contribute at least as much as you're taking though.
• Take care of yourself. Get adequate sleep and exercise. Eat properly. Socialize. Fit in positive down-time.

 

[symbolipoint]

What do you mean?

I'm studying several hours outside of class everyday and attending to every lecture. Just seem as if it's impossible for me to learn because of how dumb I am.

Exactly which courses? How are you set with the prerequisites for them? Without knowing more (and have not yet read the posts following the quote), how can you be sure you are studying properly?

 

[russ_watters]

I see no reason why ANYONE who puts forth such effort could not learn the material and pass the class.

I guess that's an admirable philosophy for a teacher, but it is wildly unrealistic/false. Some people just aren't smart enough to learn difficult subjects.

 

[russ_watters]

What should I do?

Depends.
1. Have you taken advantage of all outside-class learning opportunities available? (Visits with the professors, study groups, tutoring).
2. What did/do you want to do with your life/degree?

 

[CrysPhys]

I guess that's an admirable philosophy for a teacher, but it is wildly unrealistic/false. Some people just aren't smart enough to learn difficult subjects.

Absolutely!

 

[phyzguy]

I guess that's an admirable philosophy for a teacher, but it is wildly unrealistic/false. Some people just aren't smart enough to learn difficult subjects.

I agree completely. It's like saying that ANYONE who trains hard enough at baseball should be able to make the Yankees.

 

[NFuller]

I agree completely. It's like saying that ANYONE who trains hard enough at baseball should be able to make the Yankees.

It's not like I'm saying if you study hard enough, you will be like Richard Feynman or get a job at CERN. I'm saying that you should be able to pass the class.

I am reminded of my Quantum II class in graduate school. I put forth a great deal of effort in the class but my grade was the second lowest in the class. I barely passed that class while others got A's and B's. By the logic I'm reading in this thread, this shows that I am dumb, yet I am usually called the opposite. The reality was that I simply hated everything about how that class was taught, and thought the instructor was both bad at teaching and full of himself.

I have had the occasional hysterical student in my office panicking because they think they are about to fail. Usually after some questioning of the students difficulties, I am able to calm them down and inform them as to what they need to improve. Most of these students are able to pass. The students who fail almost always do so due to lack of effort.

 

[russ_watters]

It's not like I'm saying if you study hard enough, you will be like Richard Feynman or get a job at CERN. I'm saying that you should be able to pass the class.

My suspicion is that there are as many professional athletes in this country as there are university professors.

[edit: looks like maybe there is a difference of a factor of 10 if we only look at the high-level professional leagues]
Let me try an only slightly broader analogy: college athletes. Saying "anyone" can be a phd physicist if they work hard enough is like saying "anyone" can become a scholarship Div 1 athlete if they work hard enough.

I am reminded of my Quantum II class in graduate school. I put forth a great deal of effort in the class but my grade was the second lowest in the class. I barely passed that class while others got A's and B's. By the logic I'm reading in this thread, this shows that I am dumb, yet I am usually called the opposite.

I think what you are missing here is the sample selection. You may have been "dumb" relative to your peers, but your peers were not reflective of society at large. Perhaps there is a hidden assumption in your reasoning that your wording doesn't capture: anyone enrolled in a physics class should be able to pass such a class by virtue of the fact that they were selected for it by the university. Now, I wouldn't expect the selection process to be perfect though, and for a less competivie university that means a few unworthy candidates will fall through the cracks and be accepted anyway.

 

[Mulz]

Ok, today I realized it's due to the matierial I had difficulties with mathematics, I could easily understand it all simply by reading other textbooks.

The problem with Matlab Programming still remains, I simply don't have the problem solving skills necessary to do it. What should I do? I have to solve a lot of questions, about 30, I have so far only been able to solve 3 and I have a couple of weeks left.

Programming is just impossible for me to comprehend. The lectures we have on programming are literally USELESS, all we do is watch our professor talk about it (script files, loops etc) and honestly, that seems to be the worst possible way to teach programming in my opinion.

Am I just too dumb to deal with programming? I have always had weak problem solving skills.

 

[Windadct]

MY 2c - if the way you are studying is not working then you need to find new methods, period. Still 3 hours - is not that much, if you are not treating this as a full time job, it is not enough. But this time is not just sitting and studying. Get into study groups, band together and study with other in the major, go to professor and TA hours, seek out a tutor,- and man, for math and physics there is SOOO much available on line. Also Speed of learning is NOT really an indicator of intelligence, it may very well be that the typical semester is not the way your brain works, it may need more time on fewer subjects to absorb the material, and then something more then a 4 year program may be best, I know that could be very difficult, but moving one class off and taking it in a winter or summer session may be helpful.

Similarly - different students learn different ways, and educators, particularly at college level that have never had any training or education on education need to improve, for example should be offering a variety of materials, methods and teaching techniques. Just because someone is a good researcher - does not mean they can teach. We would be better served for the core classes (first year or so) to be taught by true educators vs PhD so-and-so, who is only doing it because it is a requirement for their position.

From a social standpoint we need, more and more, to ensure that students are educated to the best of their ability, this is not the same as "get their degrees"! MANY people in STEM actually have some learning issues, dyslexia ( affecting reading retention), ADD ( memory, verbal retention, executive processing), mild Autism ( affecting social interactions) --- by identifying the issues each student faces, there are practices and techniques for both the student and instructional system that make for the best chance of success. I only use these because they are identifiable issues, but every student should work to find or understand HOW they learn best.

 

[Choppy]

The problem with Matlab Programming still remains, I simply don't have the problem solving skills necessary to do it. What should I do? I have to solve a lot of questions, about 30, I have so far only been able to solve 3 and I have a couple of weeks left.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. If you don't *have* the skills that you need, then you need to develop them. There's no magic formula. You just have to work at it. If you can't solve the main problem you're being asked about, try to break it down into simpler steps. Write code that can accomplish those smaller steps and build up. When you get really stuck, go and talk with your professor or TA. There are also a lot of MATLAB resources online. And the Mathworks is one of the few software companies that produces help files that are actually helpful. There are even some very knowledgeable people around here in these forums that may be able to point you in the right direction.

Programming is just impossible for me to comprehend.

If you keep telling yourself this, of course it will be impossible. One of the things I've learned about courses in programming is that it's rare to pick up all the tricks and subtle nuances in the first pass. Often, it's not until you're working on a problem - sometimes years later - that something clicks in your head, a lightbulb goes off and you think "oh that's what that guy was talking about." (I know, that doesn't help on the final exam much though.)

Programming is as much a skill as it is a field of knowledge. You develop skills with practice.

The lectures we have on programming are literally USELESS, all we do is watch our professor talk about it (script files, loops etc) and honestly, that seems to be the worst possible way to teach programming in my opinion.

I know you're venting here, but have you talked with your professor about this? I know some students find that lectures aren't all that helpful - to the point where they don't even attend and prefer to use that time to cover the material on their own.

Am I just too dumb to deal with programming? I have always had weak problem solving skills.

Again, this isn't a question that we can answer. In most cases that probability is that you'll be able to figure it out eventually.

One thing I might point out though, is that medical physics does tend to involve a lot of programming and array (image) manipulation. If you're discovering that you really don't like this stuff now, it is worth considering whether you want to pursue an education and potential career that involves doing a lot of this kind of work.

 

[Mulz]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. If you don't *have* the skills that you need, then you need to develop them. There's no magic formula. You just have to work at it. If you can't solve the main problem you're being asked about, try to break it down into simpler steps. Write code that can accomplish those smaller steps and build up. When you get really stuck, go and talk with your professor or TA. There are also a lot of MATLAB resources online. And the Mathworks is one of the few software companies that produces help files that are actually helpful. There are even some very knowledgeable people around here in these forums that may be able to point you in the right direction.If you keep telling yourself this, of course it will be impossible. One of the things I've learned about courses in programming is that it's rare to pick up all the tricks and subtle nuances in the first pass. Often, it's not until you're working on a problem - sometimes years later - that something clicks in your head, a lightbulb goes off and you think "oh that's what that guy was talking about." (I know, that doesn't help on the final exam much though.)

Programming is as much a skill as it is a field of knowledge. You develop skills with practice.I know you're venting here, but have you talked with your professor about this? I know some students find that lectures aren't all that helpful - to the point where they don't even attend and prefer to use that time to cover the material on their own.
Again, this isn't a question that we can answer. In most cases that probability is that you'll be able to figure it out eventually.

One thing I might point out though, is that medical physics does tend to involve a lot of programming and array (image) manipulation. If you're discovering that you really don't like this stuff now, it is worth considering whether you want to pursue an education and potential career that involves doing a lot of this kind of work.

I do find programming to be fun, it's only frustrating because it's difficult to comprehend and because of deadlines stressing me out. Guess I will just stick to studying programming 9 hours a day or something, I don't mind that. So doing practice problems is a good way to learn, can you recommend any website that has problems that are very simple but then goes on to get a bit more difficult? It is especially "For-loops" I need assistance with. Most resourses I find are too difficult.

 

[Mark44]

I do find programming to be fun, it's only frustrating because it's difficult to comprehend and because of deadlines stressing me out. Guess I will just stick to studying programming 9 hours a day or something, I don't mind that. So doing practice problems is a good way to learn, can you recommend any website that has problems that are very simple but then goes on to get a bit more difficult? It is especially "For-loops" I need assistance with. Most resourses I find are too difficult.

A good resource for MATLAB is their documentation. Here's the page for the for statement: https://www.mathworks.com/help/matlab/ref/for.html. To find this, I did a web search for "matlab for". The mathworks site is where the MATLAB documentation is posted.

Besides explanations of the various parts of a for statement, there are a number of examples of for loops that you can try out on your own. The documentation also includes the other control statements like while loops, as well as the branching statements. If you're having trouble understanding for loops, you're probably having or will have trouble with logic using if and else.

It is essential for any budding programmer to get in the habit of looking to the documentation that is provided with the software.

 

[Dadface]

I assume that the programming unit is just a very small part of a very large syllabus so my advice is to stick with it. It may be that once you get past Matlab and onto other units you may find the work more interesting and easier to understand. I guess that when you become a medical professional you will need computer skills, but you will have years to hone those skills.

 

[DS2C]

Some advice from Henry Ford- "Whether you think you can, or think you cant, you are right."
Youre attitude is terrible (not an insult to you). You keep saying how bad you are and you can't do anything. Attitude is everything! A garbage attitude will hold you back severely. Open yourself up and tell yourself you can do it.
I don't mean to get all Dr Phil but its true. I am only just starting college, but I've overcome some huge obstacles in my life that I would have failed at if I had a negative attitude about. I am 27 and starting college so I have the benefit of this realization, but try it out and I think you will be surprised how much you really can do.

 

[Mulz]

Is "reverse engineering" scripts a viable way of learning or not?

I'm thinking about trying to understand scripts that are already finished by looking through them thoroughly and then create my own script similar to the one I analysed. Is this a good idea?

 

[Mark44]

Is "reverse engineering" scripts a viable way of learning or not?

Yes, this is a viable way to learn.

I'm thinking about trying to understand scripts that are already finished by looking through them thoroughly and then create my own script similar to the one I analysed. Is this a good idea?

Yes, this is a good idea.

From an earlier post of yours:

The lectures we have on programming are literally USELESS, all we do is watch our professor talk about it (script files, loops etc) and honestly, that seems to be the worst possible way to teach programming in my opinion.

I don't see this as being useless at all, assuming that he's explaining what each line of code does. In fact, I would prefer to see a full working example, with some explanation, than to go into extreme detail on just elements of the syntax not connected to a working example.

 

[Choppy]

Is "reverse engineering" scripts a viable way of learning or not?

I'm thinking about trying to understand scripts that are already finished by looking through them thoroughly and then create my own script similar to the one I analysed. Is this a good idea?

I agree with Mark44. Deconstructing what someone else has done is usually a good way of learning to code. Sometimes you can have the concepts right in your head, but get tripped up by the syntax. That's where it can be really helpful to look at something that already works and does what you want, and then build your own based on what that other code looks like.

One thing to be careful of is to make sure that you have a reliable source to learn from. Sometimes learning from a poor example can cause you more grief in the long run.

 

[symbolipoint]

... I see no reason why ANYONE who puts forth such effort could not learn the material and pass the class.

I guess that's an admirable philosophy for a teacher, but it is wildly unrealistic/false. Some people just aren't smart enough to learn difficult subjects.

Some students are unable to learn well in some particular course the first time through, and need to repeat it; sometimes for more than a single course. This may, depending on specific department, major or related, indicate a need to change major field; otherwise, doing the courses (such as prerequisites), if not too many, TWICE to pass properly is what the student must do.

 

[arierreF]

Reverse engineering is a good idea when you are learning programming.
But before reverse engineering you have to know the basics (variable declariation, conditional statements, loops, etc)

I don't see what is your problem/difficulty when programming? Creating an algorithm? The language syntax?
I think the first thing you have to know is the creation of the algorithm, then it is just syntax.

If you can understand math and physics, then programming is going to be easy for you (in my opinion).
I didn't have trouble because i learned it in my high school and had advantage over the others.

 

[OCR]

I was a lot younger then, but I had this exact feeling...

Just seem as if it's impossible for me to learn because of how dumb I am.

The subject was extremely difficult but, finally, I was able to master... knot theory !