Over what scale is curvature measurable

In summary: My point was that if the curvature is small enough to be consistent with a flat universe, then the equipment needed to detect it is not very accurate.
  • #1
newjerseyrunner
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Imagine I have three space probes that I send out radially. They have a superluminal way to determine each other's relative position to each other instantaneously. If each one measures the relative position of the other two and comes up with an angle for them, how far away would they have to be from each other before the sum of those angles became noticeably not 180 degrees?
 
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  • #2
If you're asking hypothetically - then it depends on how curved the space is, and how good are your measuring instruments.

If you're asking about our actual universe - then it's impossible to answer, since we don't know how, if at all, curved it is.
 
  • #3
newjerseyrunner said:
They have a superluminal way to determine each other's relative position to each other instantaneously.

No they don't.

newjerseyrunner said:
If each one measures the relative position of the other two and comes up with an angle for them, how far away would they have to be from each other before the sum of those angles became noticeably not 180 degrees?

Since you are referring to spatial curvature, this depends on how you separate time from space and therefore on exactly how your super magical fictitious superluminal communication works. Space can be curved in a flat space-time and vice versa.
 
  • #4
Bandersnatch said:
If you're asking about our actual universe - then it's impossible to answer, since we don't know how, if at all, curved it is.

We do know quite accurately how curved it is. For example, we know in great detail about the curvature of spacetime within our own solar system. You may have had in mind the average spatial curvature of the entire universe; we know that very accurately too, and it happens to be close to zero.
 
  • #5
@bcrowell: yes, I meant the spatial curvature of the universe as a whole. The post is in cosmology, so I assumed that's what was meant.
I know it's close to zero, that's the whole point. Consider what the OP is asking. He basically wants to know how accurate measuring equipment (i.e., how large a triangle) is required to detect spatial curvature of the universe. At least that's how I read it.

In this question there's an unspoken assumption that we know that the universe definitely has some non-zero global spatial curvature.
After all, if it has none, then it's impossible to measure it, no matter the accuracy of equipment.
And if it has some, but small enough to fall within the error bars of current measurements consistent with flat universe, then it is impossible to answer how accurate the equipment needs to be to detect it, since we don't know how close to zero the value lies.edit: now that I read my response in post #2 again, I see that I could be taken to mean that the global curvature is completely unconstrained by measurements. I admit it was sloppy.
 
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Related to Over what scale is curvature measurable

What is curvature and why is it important to measure?

Curvature is a measure of the amount by which a geometric shape deviates from being flat. It is important to measure curvature because it can provide information about the shape and properties of objects in the physical world, such as the Earth's surface or the structure of a molecule.

How is curvature measured?

Curvature can be measured in various ways, depending on the scale and type of object being measured. Some common methods include using a ruler or protractor to measure angles and distances, using specialized tools like a theodolite or laser scanner, or using mathematical equations to calculate curvature from known geometric properties.

What is the smallest scale at which curvature can be measured?

The smallest scale at which curvature can be measured depends on the precision and sensitivity of the measuring tools being used. In general, the smaller the scale, the more accurate the measurement will be. However, there may also be limitations due to the physical properties of the object being measured.

At what scale does curvature become significant?

Curvature can become significant at different scales depending on the context. For example, the curvature of the Earth's surface becomes significant at a global scale, while the curvature of a small pebble may only be significant at a microscopic scale. It is important to consider the context and purpose of the measurement when determining the significance of curvature.

Can curvature be measured on a flat surface?

Yes, curvature can be measured on a flat surface. This may seem counterintuitive, but even a seemingly flat surface like a tabletop or a sheet of paper has some degree of curvature. The amount of curvature may be very small and difficult to measure, but it is still present and can be quantified using precise measuring tools and techniques.

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