Problem with solution of a PDE, Neumann functions

In summary, the conversation discusses the method of separation of variables in solving PDE's and the use of boundary conditions. The author of the textbook, Eugene Butkov, often "discards" particular solutions to ODE's by setting the coefficient equal to zero if they are deemed "unacceptable on physical grounds". However, this raises the question of whether or not the function still exists at all. The conversation also gives a simpler example of this concept.
  • #1
nearlynothing
51
0
hello everyone

i'm in my sixth semester of undergraduate physics and currently taking a math methods of physics
class. So far we've been working with boundary value problems using PDE's.

In the textbook we're using and from which I've been reading mostly (mathematical physics by eugene butkov), the general approach to solving PDE's is first to use the method of separation of variables and then of course solving the resulting ODE's, by applying boundary conditions, etc.

The thing is, in solving the ODE's, the author often "discards" particular solutions to them by choosing the coorresponding constant coefficient in the general solution to be equal to zero, this is done whenever this particular solution is "unacceptable on physical grounds", which sounds quite reasonable until you're forced to do such a thing when some solution becomes unbounded at some point in the domain you're working with.

while solving a problem of a circular vibrating membrane, in one of the ODE's arising from the separation of variables, there's a bessel differential eq., whose general solution contains a Neumann function, which is not bounded at the origin, which is of course on the membrane.

Here the author says (i'll just paraphrase): we reject the Neumann function since it's not bounded at the origin, by setting its coefficient to be equal to zero.

my doubt is, by setting that coefficient equal to zero, in order to avoid physically unreasonable solutions, we seem to act as if that Neumann function ceases to exist, while all we're doing is multiply it by zero, which of course makes it vanish at all points, right?

but what happens then at the origin where the Neumann function is not even bounded, can we still say that, by multiplying it by zero, the result will be as well zero?

thanks in advance and sorry if my english is sometimes unclear or obscure so to speak, as it's not my native language.
 
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  • #2
I'll use a simpler example, rather than Bessel functions.

Suppose the general solution of an ODE is y = Ax + B/x where A and B are arbitrary constants.

If B ≠ 0, the solution is not defined when x = 0., and it is unbounded when x is close to 0.

But y = Ax is a solution of the ODE which is defined at x = 0, and obviously y(0) = 0.

People (and textbooks) often describe this by saying "if y is bounded (or finite) when x = 0, then B = 0" but that is not quite right. They really mean the B/x term is removed completely from the solution, not that B = 0.
 

1. What is a PDE?

A PDE, or partial differential equation, is a mathematical equation that involves multiple variables and their partial derivatives. It is used to describe physical phenomena such as heat transfer, fluid dynamics, and electromagnetic fields.

2. What are Neumann functions?

Neumann functions, also known as Bessel functions of the second kind, are a type of special function that arises in the solution of certain types of PDEs. They are named after the German mathematician Friedrich Bessel and are often used in the study of wave phenomena and diffusion processes.

3. What is the problem with the solution of a PDE involving Neumann functions?

The main problem with the solution of a PDE involving Neumann functions is that they can be difficult to evaluate and express in closed form. This can make it challenging to find analytical solutions to PDEs involving Neumann functions, and numerical methods are often used instead.

4. How are Neumann functions related to other types of special functions?

Neumann functions are closely related to other types of special functions, such as Bessel functions of the first kind and modified Bessel functions. In fact, they can be expressed in terms of these other special functions, making them a useful tool in the solution of PDEs.

5. Are there any real-world applications for PDEs involving Neumann functions?

Yes, PDEs involving Neumann functions have numerous real-world applications, particularly in fields such as physics, engineering, and finance. They are commonly used to model physical processes such as heat transfer, diffusion, and wave propagation, and have also been applied in the pricing of financial derivatives.

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