- #281
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First call to get back on some meaningful discussion relevant to the OP.
Math Is Hard said:Is there an update on her prognosis? I'm still stunned that someone could even survive this.
Math Is Hard said:Is there an update on her prognosis? I'm still stunned that someone could even survive this.
lisab said:I heard (on CNN, I think) the bullet only passed through just one hemisphere of her brain, and that improves her prognosis. Now she's been put into a coma until the swelling goes down...it's just wait and see at this point. Must be hell on her loved ones.
Math Is Hard said:Is there an update on her prognosis? I'm still stunned that someone could even survive this.
arildno said:Patricia Maisch, 61, was the woman who in the altercation with the gunman got hold of his magazine before he could reload.
Although others have already labelled her a hero, instrumental in stopping the shooting, she is adamant in this interview to limit her role to a tiny part after "two gentlemen" had pinned the gunman down, and that a third man grabbed the gun from him at the same time as she got hold of the magazine. She could easily have basked in the sun, by playing the grand heroine, but she chooses not to.
In a matter.of-fact way, as if it was the natural thing to do under the circumstances, she says that after the man was securely held down, she herself just went to find a roll of tissue paper to make a compression for a woman next to her with a bleeding head wound.
If we all can be as level-headed and compassionate as Mrs. Mairsch showed herself to be, the world would be a much better place:
http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/01/09/patricia-maisch-im-not-the-hero-of-az-shooting/
arildno said:Patricia Maisch, 61, was the woman who in the altercation with the gunman got hold of his magazine before he could reload.
Although others have already labelled her a hero, instrumental in stopping the shooting, she is adamant in this interview to limit her role to a tiny part after "two gentlemen" had pinned the gunman down, and that a third man grabbed the gun from him at the same time as she got hold of the magazine. She could easily have basked in the sun, by playing the grand heroine, but she chooses not to.
In a matter.of-fact way, as if it was the natural thing to do under the circumstances, she says that after the man was securely held down, she herself just went to find a roll of tissue paper to make a compression for a woman next to her with a bleeding head wound.
If we all can be as level-headed and compassionate as Mrs. Mairsch showed herself to be, the world would be a much better place:
http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/01/09/patricia-maisch-im-not-the-hero-of-az-shooting/
lisab said:I heard (on CNN, I think) the bullet only passed through just one hemisphere of her brain, and that improves her prognosis. Now she's been put into a coma until the swelling goes down...it's just wait and see at this point. Must be hell on her loved ones.
CNN said:But court documents released Sunday show that investigators found a letter from the congresswoman in a safe at the house where Loughner lived with his parents, thanking him for attending a similar 2007 event.
"Also recovered in the safe was an envelope with handwriting on the envelope stating 'I planned ahead,' and 'my assassination' and the name 'Giffords,' along with what appears to be Loughner's signature," the affidavit states.
This says to me that Loughner has been seriously and dangerously mentally ill for a long time and that he has had Giffords in his sights for a long time as well. No external prodding was needed. All that was needed was the opportunity that she was coming to / perceived insult that she was invading his home turf.nismaratwork said:http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10/arizona.shooting.investigation/index.html?hpt=T1
CNN said:But court documents released Sunday show that investigators found a letter from the congresswoman in a safe at the house where Loughner lived with his parents, thanking him for attending a similar 2007 event.
"Also recovered in the safe was an envelope with handwriting on the envelope stating 'I planned ahead,' and 'my assassination' and the name 'Giffords,' along with what appears to be Loughner's signature," the affidavit states.
I think this will explain better.arildno said:I don't think it is, per se, abnormal to keep a thank-you letter from a high ranking politician.
His murderous obsession might have developed much later than when he received it back in 2007; at a later stage when his general mental health worsened considerably.
Perhaps he was full of hopes, back then?
And then, those hopes all turned to ashes. Perhaps the bland, encouraging words given to him from Mrs. Giffords then took on some dark, sinister meaning he hadn't noticed before..
TUCSON, Ariz. – At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"
Loughner was angry about her response — she read the question and had nothing to say.
"He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy," one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday.
Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonlinear and obsessed with how words create reality.
The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: That of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.
"If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem," the 22-year-old wrote Dec. 15, part of a wide-ranging screed that was posted in video form and ended with this: "What's government if words don't have meaning?"
arildno said:I don't think it is, per se, abnormal to keep a thank-you letter from a high ranking politician.
His murderous obsession might have developed much later than when he received it back in 2007; at a later stage when his general mental health worsened considerably.
Perhaps he was full of hopes, back then?
And then, those hopes all turned to ashes. Perhaps the bland, encouraging words given to him from Mrs. Giffords then took on some dark, sinister meaning he hadn't noticed before..
D H said:This says to me that Loughner has been seriously and dangerously mentally ill for a long time and that he has had Giffords in his sights for a long time as well. No external prodding was needed. All that was needed was the opportunity that she was coming to / perceived insult that she was invading his home turf.
Evo said:Read my post #295 nismar, he was angry specificially at Giffords, aside from other problems he might have.
nismaratwork said:I did, at the same I was shaking my fist and shouting, "EVOOOOOO!". I need to be less verbose...
He clearly had it in for her, but was it proximity because of the district, or because of some other element of her, including gender? He MAY have intentionally gunned down a 9 year old girl... that's some serious rage and confusion; if it was unintentional, his lack of remorse is telling.
Arildno: Until we know more about his parents, it's hard to know, but his pathology seems more consistent with so much separation from others that I doubt his parents had a chance. Of course, they could be horrible people, or the greatest people on earth, who happened to mix their genes badly.
In another article i read that he was upset at her also because she was for more lenient immigration laws and he was against immigrants, he felt they were bringing the area down academically. Don't ask to me to back through 100 articles to find this, take that tidbit or leave it until I stumble back upon it. Also, proximity was a big thing, he lived a few miles away.nismaratwork said:He clearly had it in for her, but was it proximity because of the district
I've also read that the family was avoided by neighbors, they rode old souped up cars they worked on up and down the streets and their yard was unkept. As one neighbor said "when we went door to door to sell girlscout cookies we never went to *that* house. :tongue2: Sounds more like misfits than bad people, but who knows?Arildno: Until we know more about his parents, it's hard to know, but his pathology seems more consistent with so much separation from others that I doubt his parents had a chance. Of course, they could be horrible people, or the greatest people on earth, who happened to mix their genes badly.
A very big thing. Opportunity coupled with the fact that this woman that he despised was invading his home turf.Evo said:Also, proximity was a big thing, he lived a few miles away.
Evo said:I think this will explain better.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman_11
arildno said:Even the dragons love their ugly chicks.
So, I'd feel sorry for them, even if they are horrid people (the mother gets generally good grades among the family's neighbours)
WhoWee said:This sounds like a very paranoid person - pot probably didn't help him grasp reality.
Not that any of this makes sense, and given the information he was angry at her, I find it difficult to understand why he attacked anyone except Rep. Giffords?
IMO - my instincts tell me he used her as an excuse to attack the society that he clearly did not fit into - it was the validating point (in his twisted mind) for a final act of desperation.
mugaliens said:I don't trust our government, and I carry a firearm pretty much everywhere I go. However, this kid's actions are reprehensible. Approximately 4 million other U.S. 22-year olds aren't gunning down members of Congress, so there's definitely something wrong with this fellow.
My instincts tell me you're right, WhoWee. Congresswoman Giffords was an unfortunate target of opportunity for this perp.
I find it interesting that he had tried to cut in line, unarmed, but was rebuffed by another person waiting in line. Only then did he loose it, retrieve his gun from his vehicle, and return to commit this heinous crime.
Sounds to me like it was a crime of passion. I recently read that in the U.S. politics are about 30% more closely held (i.e. hotly contested) than religion. Regardless, I can't tell you how many times I've been stirred into rage by one issue or another. That doesn't mean I blow my stack, pick up a gun, and start blazing away, however. More than 99% of all humans have a normally-developed portion of our brains which keeps us from doing harm to others unless it's absolutely necessary for self-preservation. The only reason I routinely carry a firearm is because that statistic is less than 100%, and on one occasion, more than 20 years ago, it saved my life.
As for this kid, I feel sorry that he just royally flushed his life down the drain, and more sorry for the friends and family members of those whom he harmed. It's a sad state of affairs, period.
I sincerely hope the powers that be recognize this has nothing to do with the availability of a firearm. In fact, I hope and pray everyone with more than two cents worth of brains would recognize that had I or any of the other 10% of our population who carries a firearm on a regular basis been there, the kid would not have managed to get off more than two shots.
I thank God for the two people who tackled him to the ground. Brave souls, they were, and they earned a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Gold_Medal" .
I'm forwarding a recommendation to that effect to my Congressman. If you concur, https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml". Thank you.
mugaliens said:I find it interesting that he had tried to cut in line, unarmed, but was rebuffed by another person waiting in line. Only then did he loose it, retrieve his gun from his vehicle, and return to commit this heinous crime.
Greg Bernhardt said:Sounds like the kid in Omaha that shot the principle over a small suspension. A massive overreaction to the final falling straw, but it was always a culmination of life long events.
No doubt this is tragic, but let's not lose focus that countless people all over the country/world are being murdered every day. Why does it take a congresswomen to wake people up?
nismaratwork said:mugalians: How did he retrieve his gun from a vehicle? He arrived in a cab. He walked to a staffer, asked to see the congresswoman (saw the staffer talk about this on the scene on CNN), was told to go to the back of the line, he returned "moments later" and began shooting.
Can you post the link to this story? I can't find it. He was driven by taxi, he didn't have a vehicle. I read that the driver went into the store to get change for a $20 and that was why he was initially thought to be involved.mugaliens said:I find it interesting that he had tried to cut in line, unarmed, but was rebuffed by another person waiting in line. Only then did he loose it, retrieve his gun from his vehicle, and return to commit this heinous crime.
Evo said:Can you post the link to this story? I can't find it. He was driven by taxi, he didn't have a vehicle. I read that the driver went into the store to get change for a $20 and that was why he was initially thought to be involved.
Thanks.