Solving Nonlinear ODE: magnetism with varying particle charge

In summary: Hello.Thank you for your input. In summary, it is generally best to solve a first-order linear system using the "brute force" method, but if you only have a constant coefficient problem it is easier to use the "inspired guess" method.
  • #1
Eloise
3
0
Hello.

I have a set of ODE where
1) [tex]\frac{dv_x}{dt}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}v_y[/tex]
2) [tex]\frac{dv_y}{dt}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}v_x[/tex]
3) [tex]\frac{dv_z}{dt}=0[/tex]

Following the strategy to solve a simple harmonic oscillator,
I differentiate (1) to get
4) [tex]\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}\frac{dv_y}{dt}+q'(t)v_y[/tex]

and substitute (1) and (2) into it to get
5) [tex]\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=(\frac{q(t)B}{m})^2v_x+\frac{q'(t)}{q(t)}\frac{dv_x}{dt}[/tex]

which involve only functions of [itex]t[/itex] and [itex]x[/itex].
The initial position of the particle is at the origin.
I do not know if this is the correct way. I should solve it by inspired guessing?

Can you please help me by giving me some tips on solving this?
Thank you very much.
 
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  • #2
Eloise said:
I differentiate (1) to get
4) [tex]\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}\frac{dv_y}{dt}+q'(t)v_y[/tex]
¨
Shouldn't that be ##\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}\frac{dv_y}{dt}+\frac{q'(t)B}{m}v_y##? Otherwise your method is correct, but you have to know the function ##q(t)## to solve the equation. The equation is not nonlinear, by the way.
 
  • #3
Eloise said:
Hello.

I have a set of ODE where
1) [tex]\frac{dv_x}{dt}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}v_y[/tex]
2) [tex]\frac{dv_y}{dt}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}v_x[/tex]
3) [tex]\frac{dv_z}{dt}=0[/tex]

I think, starting from
[tex]
m\frac{d\vec v}{dt} = q(t)(\vec v \times \vec B)
[/tex]
with [itex]\vec B = (0, 0, B)[/itex], that you should have a minus sign on the right hand side of (2) above.

Following the strategy to solve a simple harmonic oscillator,
I differentiate (1) to get
4) [tex]\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=\frac{q(t)B}{m}\frac{dv_y}{dt}+q'(t)v_y[/tex]

and substitute (1) and (2) into it to get
5) [tex]\frac{d^2v_x}{dt^2}=(\frac{q(t)B}{m})^2v_x+\frac{q'(t)}{q(t)}\frac{dv_x}{dt}[/tex]

I don't think that helps you here.

I do not know if this is the correct way. I should solve it by inspired guessing?

Can you please help me by giving me some tips on solving this?
Thank you very much.

It's generally best to keep a first order linear system (which yours is) as a first order system rather than turn it into a second order system.

Your system is essentially
[tex]
\frac{dv_x}{dt} = f(t)v_y \\
\frac{dv_y}{dt} = f(t)v_x
[/tex]
Now if you set [itex]u_1 = v_x + v_y[/itex] and [itex]u_2 = v_x- v_y[/itex] then you have
[tex]
\frac{du_1}{dt} = f(t)u_1 \\
\frac{du_2}{dt} = -f(t)u_2
[/tex]
and those first-order equations are separable and can be solved.

Alternatively, you can make the inspired guess that
[tex]
v_x(t) = v_x(0) \cosh(F(t)) + v_y(0) \sinh(F(t)), \\
v_y(t) = v_y(0) \cosh(F(t)) + v_x(0) \sinh(F(t)).
[/tex]
for a suitable [itex]F(t)[/itex] with [itex]F(0) = 0[/itex], which is prompted by the observation that
[tex]
\frac{d}{dt} \cosh(t) = \sinh (t), \\
\frac{d}{dt} \sinh(t) = \cosh (t)
[/tex]
so that if
[tex]
P(t) = C \cosh(t) + D \sinh(t) \\
Q(t) = D \cosh(t) + C \sinh(t)
[/tex]
then
[tex]
\frac{dP}{dt} = Q \\
\frac{dQ}{dt} = P
[/tex]
which is almost your system, but to get the factor of [itex]f(t)[/itex] on the right of each equation we have to exploit the chain rule and instead set
[tex]
P(t) = C \cosh(F(t)) + D \sinh(F(t)) \\
Q(t) =D \cosh(F(t)) + C \sinh(F(t))
[/tex]
so that now
[tex]
\frac{dP}{dt} = F'(t)Q \\
\frac{dQ}{dt} = F'(t)P
[/tex]
which is your system. Only [itex]F'[/itex] is forced on us, so we can choose [itex]F(0)[/itex] to be whatever we want, and the choice [itex]F(0) = 0[/itex] is convenient, since then [itex]P(0) = C[/itex] and [itex]Q(0) = D[/itex].


The initial position of the particle is at the origin.

I assume [itex]v_x[/itex] and [itex]v_y[/itex] are components of velocity, so you need to specify an initial velocity as well.
 
  • #4
pasmith said:
It's generally best to keep a first order linear system (which yours is) as a first order system rather than turn it into a second order system.

Actually, in my classical mechanics textbook, the trajectory of a charged particle in constant magnetic field is solved in that fashion (differentiating to increase the order of the system). That's the "brute force" method to solve the problem.
 
  • #5
hilbert2 said:
Actually, in my classical mechanics textbook, the trajectory of a charged particle in constant magnetic field is solved in that fashion (differentiating to increase the order of the system). That's the "brute force" method to solve the problem.

And it makes things easier only in the constant-coefficient case, which is not this case.
 
  • #6
Thank you very much. I didn't thought of using hyperbolic functions. Thanks again for helping.
 

1. What is a nonlinear ODE?

A nonlinear ODE (ordinary differential equation) is an equation that involves a dependent variable and its derivatives, where the derivatives are not in a linear relationship with the dependent variable. This means that the equation cannot be solved using simple algebraic methods and requires more advanced techniques.

2. How does magnetism play a role in this problem?

In this problem, magnetism refers to the force that arises between particles with varying charges. The varying charges create a magnetic field, which can affect the movement and interactions of the particles. Solving the nonlinear ODE will help understand the behavior of these particles and the effect of magnetism on their movement.

3. What are some methods for solving nonlinear ODEs?

There are several methods for solving nonlinear ODEs, including numerical methods such as Euler's method and Runge-Kutta methods, as well as analytical methods like perturbation methods and series solutions. The specific method chosen will depend on the complexity of the equation and the desired level of accuracy.

4. How does varying particle charge affect the solution of the ODE?

Varying particle charge can significantly affect the solution of the ODE. This is because the magnetic force between particles is dependent on their charges, and changes in charge can alter the strength and direction of the force. Therefore, the solution of the ODE will vary depending on the specific charges of the particles.

5. Can this problem be applied to real-world situations?

Yes, this problem can be applied to various real-world situations, such as studying the behavior of particles in a magnetic field, modeling the movement of charged particles in a plasma, or understanding the behavior of particles in a particle accelerator. By solving the nonlinear ODE, scientists can gain insights into the behavior of these systems and potentially make predictions about their behavior in different scenarios.

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