Medical Kids with Kidney Stones: A Growing Concern?

[zoobyshoe]

A friend of mine just got told by a doctor he might have kidney stones. I was a bit shocked since he's 24. Googling, I found this:

To the great surprise of parents, kidney stones, once considered a disorder of middle age, are now showing up in children as young as 5 or 6.

While there are no reliable data on the number of cases, pediatric urologists and nephrologists across the country say they are seeing a steep rise in young patients. Some hospitals have opened pediatric kidney stone clinics.

“The older doctors would say in the ’70s and ’80s, they’d see a kid with a stone once every few months,” said Dr. Caleb P. Nelson, a urology instructor at Harvard Medical School who is co-director of the new kidney stone center at Children’s Hospital Boston. “Now we see kids once a week or less.”...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/health/28kidn.html

 

[Evo]

There are different types of stones and they are caused by different things. It would seem that children today are eating diets too high in calcium, (supplemented calcium, to be specific, like everything now is "calcium enriched", protein, and soy, all of which are known to contribute to stones.

Seems apple and grapefruit juice are on the bad list. Jimmy, you drink a lot of grapefruit juice?

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/kidney-stones/prevention.html

When I was in my teens, I was diagnosed with high levels of uric acid (I would have terrible pain in my left arm) and had to take ziloprim for years. I'm wondering if the repeated "gall bladder" attacks they said I had wasn't actually stones. They kept hospitalizing me to remove my gall bladder, then suddenly the pain and vomiting would stop and I'd be perfectly fine and the doctors were always baffled.

Too Much Soy Could Lead To Kidney Stones

New research indicates that soybeans and soy-based foods, a staple in the diets of many health-conscious consumers, may promote kidney stones in those prone to the painful condition. The finding will be published in the September issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society.

http://www.biology-online.org/articles/soy_lead_kidney_stones.html

 

[zoobyshoe]

There are different types of stones and they are caused by different things. It would seem that children today are eating diets too high in calcium, protein, and soy, all of which are known to cause stones.

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/kidney-stones/prevention.html

My friend is rather obese and sedentary, so I'm sure his diet is the cause. Still, I didn't realize this problem ever affected kids.

When I was in my teens, I was diagnosed with high levels of uric acid (I would have terrible pain in my left arm) and had to take ziloprim for years. I'm wondering if the repeated "gall bladder" attacks they said I had wasn't actually stones. They kept hospitalizing me to remove my gall bladder, then suddenly the pain and vomiting would stop and I'd be perfectly fine and the doctors were always baffled.

Would gall stones have just cleared up somehow?

 

[Evo]

My friend is rather obese and sedentary, so I'm sure his diet is the cause. Still, I didn't realize this problem ever affected kids.

It could be due to the overloading of children with supposedly "healthy foods". Everything in moderatation.

Would gall stones have just cleared up somehow?

I don't know about gall stones, but if it wasn't my gall bladder (they were just guessing) I could have passed a stone, explaining the miraculous "cure".

 

[zoobyshoe]

It could be due to the overloading of children with supposedly "healthy foods". Everything in moderatation.

The article I found linked it to salt and lack of fluids:

The increase in the United States is attributed to a host of factors, including a food additive that is both legal and ubiquitous: salt.

Though most of the research on kidney stones comes from adult studies, experts believe it can be applied to children. Those studies have found that dietary factors are the leading cause of kidney stones, which are crystallizations of several substances in the urine. Stones form when these substances become too concentrated.

Forty to 65 percent of kidney stones are formed when oxalate, a byproduct of certain foods, binds to calcium in the urine. (Other common types include calcium phosphate stones and uric acid stones.) And the two biggest risk factors for this binding process are not drinking enough fluids and eating too much salt; both increase the amount of calcium and oxalate in the urine.

 

[Evo]

Excess salt can contribute to calcium stones, but I don't see it linked to other stones. (Evo hugs her salt container)

A couple of good articles.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/kidneystonediet/#salt

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/Kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/

Timely of you to post this, I have been vomiting and experiencing intense pain in my right lower flank for two days and almost went to the ER last night when my body temp dropped to 93.7 and started to pass out. The last time I did pass out and woke up on the bathroom floor with my lower teeth broken through the area below my lower lip and blood everywhere. Apparently I blacked out as I was vomiting into the toilet and slammed my face into the toilet rim. As usual with these "attacks" stuff was shooting out of both ends, it's good I live alone, that's rather embarrassing, but it's always the same, since I was in my teens. No wonder my doctor just shakes his head when he sees me.

Rhody, how is your stone? And Monique had an attack recently IIRC. Of course Jimmy S is the scariest, whenever I start to feel sorry for myself, I think about what he's gone through and suddenly I don't feel so bad.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Timely of you to post this, I have been vomiting and experiencing intense pain in my right lower flank for two days and almost went to the ER last night when my body temp dropped to 93.7 and started to pass out.

Reminds me of what Ivan just posted in Random Thoughts:

It is funny how we tend to hide or deny potenially lethal health issues. It is as if admitting the problem exists makes it real. I've done this myself so I understand the mindset. When I was a kid I had a serious issue that I hid from my parents for months. I remember lying in bed at night thinking I might be dying. But telling my parents what was going on seemed even worse.

Personally, I'd be at the clinic right now.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Stone formation is a topic somewhat related to my research (renal function)- what I know is very general and fragmented. The generation of stones reflects a more general pathology than increased salt load, and is generally not correlated with diet.

Evo's links are a reasonable place to start. The overall process in a renal nephron is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kidney_nephron_molar_transport_diagram.png

Most of the fluid from blood enters the nephron through the glomerulus, and as the fluid is transported along the nephron, almost all of the fluid and solutes are transported back into the blood- this is the essence of 'homeostasis'. Each kidney processes over 160 liters of fluid per day.

As you can see on the diagram, different solutes are resorbed at different locations- different classes of diuretics (potassium sparing ones like amiloride, Na/Cl blockers like thiazides, loop diuretics, etc.) work at different locations on different, specific, ion transporters. The majority of resorption, >80%, occurs early, in the proximal tubule and loop of Henle. For Ca2+, this transport is paracellular and passive. Further downstream, Ca2+ is transported through the cell via passive diffusion through a Ca channel on the apical side and is excreted into the blood by a 3Na+/1 Ca 2+ antiporter.

That's how Ca2+ is handled: Ca2+ transport is largely disconnected from Na+, high Na+ levels in the blood instead translates to hypertension, since 99.5% of all Na+ is resorbed into the blood and water follows sodium. Ca2+ concentration in the nephron in itself does not correlate to stones: astronauts excrete huge amounts of calcium (1% of bone mass is lost per month on orbit) and don't (AFAIK) have an increased rate of stone formation. What matters is not only the concentrations of Ca2+, oxalate, and phosphate, but also the pH and levels of citrate: citrate and other compounds like nephrocalcin allow the stable existence of supersaturated calcium oxalate and calcium phosphate. The kidney has multiple systems to adjust and control the pH, and renal acidosis is highly correlated with stone formation.

I'm not sure on the rate-limiting step: nucleation or growth. Cloudy urine is caused by albumin secretion and is not related to stones. Gallstones are totally different- those are cholesterol.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The generation of stones reflects a more general pathology than increased salt load, and is generally not correlated with diet.

What do you think might be causing the increased incidence of kidney stones in children? This is the first I heard of it. It's surprising and mysterious.

 

[Evo]

What do you think might be causing the increased incidence of kidney stones in children? This is the first I heard of it. It's surprising and mysterious.

I think this goes with what Andy was saying.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stoneschildren/#4

 

[rhody]

Timely of you to post this, I have been vomiting and experiencing intense pain in my right lower flank for two days and almost went to the ER last night when my body temp dropped to 93.7 and started to pass out.

Rhody, how is your stone? And Monique had an attack recently IIRC. Of course Jimmy S is the scariest, whenever I start to feel sorry for myself, I think about what he's gone through and suddenly I don't feel so bad.

Thanks for asking Evo. You meant 97.3 temperature last night right, not 93.7 which would be very dangerous, if not outright impossible.

There seems to be no real common thread and or symptom most people can hang their hat on as to when and why we get them and what discomfort they cause. I can only speak from personal experience. Didn't have my first attack till mid 40's and then because I was tired, dehydrated and drank a decent amount of beer the day before. I drink even at night now, and to my dismay, had another stone or small piece of sand pass on the same side (left) a few years later. I attribute the second one to stress, just had experienced a two year slow slide where my father in law passed away, and on the day of the funeral before heading out I mowed his lawn on a tractor, and that's when the second one started. I took pain pills, and made it through the wake without problems, but was in pain. I strongly believe that stress contributed to it but have no scientific proof. Fast forward to today, this one, 9 millimeters, right side is about one half inch above the bladder and I and the Urologist suspect has been there a long time, months even, getting bigger as time passed. Symptoms, mild cramping (not often), nausea, getting progressively worse in the last three months, feeling bloated (from back pressure on right kidney, causing it to swell, and maybe contributing to nerve and lower back pain. A weird constellation of symptoms very different from last two times. Since I had my gall bladder out three months ago, I blamed that, even though I had large gall stones, they were NOT the cause of the nausea, because it intensified since it was removed. I know one thing, I do not pass stones quickly or easily, of that fact I am 100% sure.

From Zooby's post:

Forty to 65 percent of kidney stones are formed when oxalate, a byproduct of certain foods, binds to calcium in the urine. (Other common types include calcium phosphate stones and uric acid stones.) And the two biggest risk factors for this binding process are not drinking enough fluids and eating too much salt; both increase the amount of calcium and oxalate in the urine.

This led me to the conclusion that I have excess calcium, and that is partly due to sarcoid, but that is another story for another day. My main Dr. was concerned that I reduce the calcium in my system, and in digging around for something that would help I stumbled onto magnesium, and take two 250 mg tablets a day, on evening the other in the morning. My last blood work showed that for the first time my calcium levels were normal, which I attribute to the fact that magnesium absorbs calcium by a 2 to 1 ratio, and most Americans are deficient in magnesium to begin with. I haven't had any bad side effects from it, and if it keeps my calcium in check, then I will continue to take it. My primary Dr. was fine with the dose I was taking as well.

As to the final outcome of my current 9 millimeter stone, I am getting it removed, I will spare you the details under general anesthesia next Monday at hospital. The method the Urologist is using is the safest, (laser) and the pain and recovery time should be minimal. It will be good not to feel queasy all the time. I learned a valuable lesson, don't take a symptom for granted (nausea, cramping, groin pain) that it could not be a kidney stone and include a yearly low dose X-Ray to determine if their are any more in the "pipeline" or kidney. I could have saved myself a whole lot of aggravation if I had followed this advice (suggested by Jimmy) I just described above. Monique, and Jimmy how are you both doing ? I know Jimmy said he has stones in his kidney, and as long as they are not causing him issues they will stay put for now. Monique, were you able to pass yours ?

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Thanks for asking Evo. You meant 97.3 temperature last night right, not 93.7 which would be very dangerous, if not outright impossible.

No, tht's not uncommon for me. When I was in the hospital, they kept changing thermomoters, also my BP would drop to like 60/40 at the same time, they would have squads of nurses in there changing machines, writing the readings on a white board on the wall. My daughter and her BF were there, they had never believed me before.

I turn blue, lips are blue, I look dead.

 

[rhody]

No, that's not uncommon for me. When I was in the hospital, they kept changing thermometers, also my BP would drop to like 60/40 at the same time, they would have squads of nurses in there changing machines, writing the readings on a white board on the wall. My daughter and her BF were there, they had never believed me before.

I turn blue, lips are blue, I look dead.

Perhaps you have some extra-terrestrial blood in you then, and that BP, no wonder you passed out !

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Perhaps you have some extra-terrestrial blood in you then, and that BP, no wonder you passed out !

Rhody...

I'm convinced of it. But I snap right back like it never happened. In 30 minutes I'd go from deathly low to super high, they even changed my assigned nurses and CNAs incase they were up to something.

I'm just WEIRD!

Rhody, that sounds awful! You poor thing! So Monday you get zapped? Do you have to stay overnight for observation?

They did an ultrasound on me last month, but the results came back "unable to view due to large amount of air", the tech told me that I had a HUGE ball of gas and ultrasound can't see though air. She couldn't even find my spleen, and I do have one.

bobze, would gas in my stomach & colon block out that much? (I'm a dummy, I know what side things are on, but not what's supposed to be in front), although it was discovered that my guts weren't all put back in the right places afer one major surgery. I didn't know there was an option.

Kurdt's getting tired of rubbing my tummy every day, any volunteers? micro, can I a get a virtual Dolphin rubbing?

Rhody, we'll talk in chat before Monday, I'm paying micro for some Dolphin intervention for you. I think the great whites are too extreme until we get those stones out.

We must support each other.

 

[Andy Resnick]

What do you think might be causing the increased incidence of kidney stones in children? This is the first I heard of it. It's surprising and mysterious.

I think this goes with what Andy was saying.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stoneschildren/#4

Is there actual data in changes to the incidence of stones in children, or is it 'self-selection bias'? Does the claimed increase in children correlate with an overall increase to the adult population? This was on another NIDDK site: "For unknown reasons, the number of people in the United States with kidney stones has been increasing over the past 30 years.". Stones also correlate with age- by that I mean just as rates of cancer increase because we are living healthier and longer, perhaps stones are another disease we are privileged to contract in old age.

Another interesting result: "The prevalence of kidney stones rises dramatically as men enter their 40s and continues to rise into their 70s. For women, the prevalence of kidney stones peaks in their 50s." Does this correlate with menopause and imply hormonal effects?

I don't know the answers. What I do know is that the kidney is a regulatory organ- the function of the kidney is to maintain the body's salt and water balance. By construction, errors in the collecting duct (the part I work with) correspond to feedback errors at the < 0.1% level, and this corresponds to slow-acting diseases that generally don't manifest obvious symptoms for years or decades (hypertension, autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease, cystic liver disease).

That said, children are showing increased rates of many diseases: athlerosclerosis, type 2 diabetes, (perhaps) kidney stones, etc. that are generally associated with adults, and diet is implicated in all of these.

 

[rhody]

Timely of you to post this, I have been vomiting and experiencing intense pain in my right lower flank for two days and almost went to the ER last night when my body temp dropped to 93.7 and started to pass out.

Evo, below core body temp of 95 F (35 C) you should be experiencing moderate hypothermia:

This occurs when the core temperature falls below 35°C and results in violent shivering and a loss in muscular coordination. Walking becomes laborious and difficult with frequent stumbles and the victim may fall over.

Most dangerous of all at this stage is perhaps the loss of ability to make rational decisions. There may be a desire to lay down in the snow and sleep, to discard a rucksack (that probably contains food and clothing) rather than carry it, and even to remove clothing due to an unawareness of the cold. Mountaineers may fail to fasten safety harnesses and other basic simple safety procedures may be ignored with possibly fatal results.

Below 32°C (89.6°F) shivering stops as there is no energy left to keep it going, this causes the temperature to drop even further and more rapidly. The victim eventually unable to walk will curl up on the ground completely unaware of others, unconsciousness comes at around 30°C (86°F).

You weren't shivering uncontrollably, were you ?

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Evo, below core body temp of 95 F (35 C) you should be experiencing moderate hypothermia:

You weren't shivering uncontrollably, were you ?

Rhody...

I believe. But what they can't figure out is the drops and raises in body temp, heart rate and BP. It's happened a number of times in hospitals (it's why they canceled my gall bladder surgery last time, my vital signs were so bad they were too afraid to operate for until I stabalized). No explanation. After they canceled surgery, they kept me in the hospital for 3 days for observation to see if it happened again.

I have no idea what causes it, that last ER doctor swore he'd have an answer before I was discharged, nope.

Apparently some people get it. I have to be careful when it starts to happen, although it's not as common as it used to be.

In secondary hypothermia, something goes wrong with the body’s heat-balancing mechanisms. People with such diseases as stroke, spinal cord injury, low blood sugar, and a variety of skin disorders can become hypothermic in only mildly cool air.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/hypothermia/page2_em.htm

 

[rhody]

I believe. But what they can't figure out is the drops and raises in body temp, heart rate and BP. It's happened a number of times in hospitals (it's why they canceled my gall bladder surgery last time, my vital signs were so bad they were too afraid to operate for until I stabalized. No explanation. After they canceled surgery, they kept me in the hospital for 3 days for observation to see if it happened again.

Seriously, I am beginning to believe you are part alien, or at least part cold blooded amphibian ! They should sample and run a complete workup of your DNA. I am sure there are some interesting surprises there as well.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Yay ! The stone is history, now if I could only pee without pain, that would be nice, the after effects from the anesthesia are much better this time. My brain is not in such a fog as last time, no bloating either, having a bite to eat, then going to take it easy, the Doc and nurses at hospital were very kind. It makes it a lot less stressful that way. I will not miss the daily nausea one bit either. One hell of a way to keep from gaining weight, that is for sure. All for now, hopefully the pain med will kick into make peeing easier.

Rhody...

P.S. I only have one complaint so far... and that is... hopefully that will end soon and I will be back to normal in a few days, FYI, the pain meds do not provide even minor relief.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/9941/bladesc.jpg

 

[Monique]

Monique, and Jimmy how are you both doing ? I know Jimmy said he has stones in his kidney, and as long as they are not causing him issues they will stay put for now. Monique, were you able to pass yours ?

I'm doing fine now, I'm not sure whether it passed but the pain is gone. It took 5 days of intense cramps in my left side. I was taking the maximum dose of prescribed painkiller, but it was not even taking the edge off the pain. After that there were some relapses for about a week.

X-ray and echo showed nothing, but I wasn't surprised. Several years ago I had similar intense cramps in my right side, which lasted much longer and were never diagnosed. Now I’m thinking it might have been stones as well, I’m glad it didn’t appear on my right side again. In the future I’ll know what’s happening when pain with the same characteristics appears, that at least is a relieve.

 

[Evo]

Rhody, feeling any better today?

 

[rhody]

Rhody, feeling any better today?

No at first, now yes, the amazing ability of the body to withstand prodding, scraping from the insides (ewww...) and to bounce back is nothing short of amazing. Every time (early am) today I had to pee it wasn't pretty, hurt like hell, then I convinced myself that I could take the pain, by comparing it to the "take your breath away, curled up in a little ball kind of pain." Put in that context it isn't so bad. I sort of surrendered to it, and it seems more tolerable now that I am no longer anxious because of it. The bleeding is not as frequent and I feel a small sensation of itching, which is a sign things are starting heal. Knowing that there will be an end to it is encouraging. Each day things should get a little bit better. Thanks for asking. It will be nice not to feel nauseous in the morning any more.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Today has not gone as well as the past two, more persistent pain (feels like a clot that can't or won't pass) or possibly the beginning of an infection. I am taking a twice a day antibiotic for 3 days as a precaution.

I am not complaining but everytime I do pee, at the same time a second or two into it, I get a big rush of adrenaline which is odd because the beginning of the pee cycle I feel pain, followed by the relief rush. Is there a scientific name for this ? I am not imagining it, it is REAL.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Today has not gone as well as the past two, more persistent pain (feels like a clot that can't or won't pass) or possibly the beginning of an infection. I am taking a twice a day antibiotic for 3 days as a precaution.

I am not complaining but everytime I do pee, at the same time a second or two into it, I get a big rush of adrenaline which is odd because the beginning of the pee cycle I feel pain, followed by the relief rush. Is there a scientific name for this ? I am not imagining it, it is REAL.

Rhody...

Pain releases endorphins, perhaps it is an endorphin rush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin

 

[rhody]

Pain releases endorphins, perhaps it is an endorphin rush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin

Yes, but up till now I had never before experienced the pain followed by the release of endorphins so close together. I have read many accounts about soldier's injured horribly in war, and how the wounded claimed they felt no pain.

This is repeatable, and I might add, did NOT happen the first few times I went after my surgery (just pain), it seemed to kick in after the third or forth time I went. Now it is every time the pain flares up, almost like some set threshold has been met. If I don't have as much blood in the urine, I don't feel it, it feels like going normally. It is odd to say the least, not that I am complaining.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Here is what the procedure looks like and the insertion of the stent. Nice. Now I know why there is pain.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Jebus, look at what this drug company (one of four) from San Diego plans to roll out !

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57348477-10391704/painkiller-10-times-stronger-than-vicodin-worries-addiction-experts/

(CBS/AP) As pharmaceutical companies are approaching the final stages of development for a new type of painkiller said to be 10 times stronger than Vicodin, addiction experts worry a new wave of abuse may soon follow.

Four companies have begun patient testing on the pills which contain a pure version of the highly addictive painkiller hydrocodone, and one of them - Zogenix of San Diego - plans to apply early next year to begin marketing its product, Zohydro.

and...

Critics are especially worried about Zohydro, a timed-release drug meant for managing moderate to severe pain, because abusers could crush it for an intense, immediate high.

Zohydro, what a name. I can't think of any kind of pain I could experience that needs to be addressed by something ten times stronger than Vicodin.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

T-minus approximately 20 hours before that stinking, nasty, snake of a zombie (stent) gets yanked out (by the Dr of course) ! I have heard three stories about what happens right after it is removed. In the worst case, this person had unbearable pain for the next two days, but their stone was zapped with sound waves while inside the kidney and the stent was inserted to let the debris flush, apparently there was some of it found its way on to the wall lining of the ureter and removing the stent made it fresh meat. I can't visualize how that happened. This was not my situation, so I am not worried about intense pain. In the other two cases there wasn't much pain after and they were back to normal in a day or two. I promise I will never take feeling normal (free from pain) about myself for granted again. Everyday you feel healthy and able to function (non medicated) without pain is a blessing.

Rhody...

 

[Monique]

Oi, I wish the best scenario to you and that this will be over soon.

 

[rhody]

I'm doing fine now, I'm not sure whether it passed but the pain is gone. It took 5 days of intense cramps in my left side. I was taking the maximum dose of prescribed painkiller, but it was not even taking the edge off the pain. After that there were some relapses for about a week.

X-ray and echo showed nothing, but I wasn't surprised. Several years ago I had similar intense cramps in my right side, which lasted much longer and were never diagnosed. Now I’m thinking it might have been stones as well, I’m glad it didn’t appear on my right side again. In the future I’ll know what’s happening when pain with the same characteristics appears, that at least is a relieve.

Monique,

The episode before my last one, this one on the opposite of left side, an X-ray a few days later showed no stone, but the Dr. said it could have been a small sandlike particle that passed. From you description of it, this may have happened to you too. Do you remember what you were going through when it happened ? Were you dealing with a great deal of stress ? This was the case for me, it is interesting to compare notes to see if there are common threads.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Jebus, look at what this drug company (one of four) from San Diego plans to roll out !

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57348477-10391704/painkiller-10-times-stronger-than-vicodin-worries-addiction-experts/


Zohydro, what a name. I can't think of any kind of pain I could experience that needs to be addressed by something ten times stronger than Vicodin.

Rhody...

Percocet is already ~1.5-2 times stronger than Vicodin (vicodin is not strong) Percodan is oxycodone with aspirin. Looking at the manufacturer's website, they do not claim it to be stronger than hydrocodone, just that it won't be combined with another NSAID, like acetominophen, and it will be time released. So although it's stronger than vicodin, it's not stronger than percocet, oxycodone is oxycodone. Perhaps what is misleading is that since the pills last 12 hours, the amount of oxycodone is higher than what you would find in a 4 hour tablet of oxycodone. Typical misleading media hype.

http://www.zogenix.com/index.php/products/zx002/

 

[rhody]

Percocet is already ~1.5-2 times stronger than Vicodin (vicodin is not strong) Percodan is oxycodone with aspirin. Looking at the manufacturer's website, they do not claim it to be stronger than hydrocodone, just that it won't be combined with another NSAID, like acetominophen, and it will be time released. So although it's stronger than vicodin, it's not stronger than percocet, oxycodone is oxycodone. Perhaps what is misleading is that since the pills last 12 hours, the amount of oxycodone is higher than what you would find in a 4 hour tablet of oxycodone. Typical misleading media hype.

http://www.zogenix.com/index.php/products/zx002/

Yes, if it is timed released to last 3 or 4 times longer then it makes sense. However, if a drug addict crushed the tablet to get an instant high, that's a whole different story.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Yes, if it is timed released to last 3 or 4 times longer then it makes sense. However, if a drug addict crushed the tablet to get an instant high, that's a whole different story.

Rhody...

But we shouldn't be restricted because of what some fool will do. Large amounts of water can kill you but I don't see anyone calling for a government ban.

BTW, hope your stent removal goes well and you start feeling better.

 

[rhody]

But we shouldn't be restricted because of what some fool will do. Large amounts of water can kill you but I don't see anyone calling for a government ban.

BTW, hope your stent removal goes well and you start feeling better.

Thanks,

In my state, you can't buy ephedrine over the counter, some stores won't even sell it, or only sell one package to someone over 18 and not more than one per week. Pharmacies I use won't stock oxycontin because they have been robbed by addicts. I predict if word gets out about the potency of this timed release pain killer, the same procedure will be put in place. This is my personal opinion however.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Thanks,

In my state, you can't buy ephedrine over the counter, some stores won't even sell it, or only sell one package to someone over 18 and not more than one per week. Pharmacies I use won't stock oxycontin because they have been robbed by addicts. I predict if word gets out about the potency of this timed release pain killer, the same procedure will be put in place. This is my personal opinion however.

Rhody...

It really burns me up that our solution to criminal abuse is to punish the good people.

 

[Monique]

Monique,

The episode before my last one, this one on the opposite of left side, an X-ray a few days later showed no stone, but the Dr. said it could have been a small sandlike particle that passed. From you description of it, this may have happened to you too. Do you remember what you were going through when it happened ? Were you dealing with a great deal of stress ? This was the case for me, it is interesting to compare notes to see if there are common threads.

Rhody...

Yes, stress could have been a factor but the main culprit would be dehydration. I was working long hours in a lab the week leading up to the attack. I'm stupid enough to not eat and drink until the experiment is finished, partially caused by the long distance between the lab and the office. That probably was a trigger.

Apparently it is typical to have the pain start in the early morning hours, does that happen to you as well?

 

[rhody]

Yes, stress could have been a factor but the main culprit would be dehydration. I was working long hours in a lab the week leading up to the attack. I'm stupid enough to not eat and drink until the experiment is finished, partially caused by the long distance between the lab and the office. That probably was a trigger.

Apparently it is typical to have the pain start in the early morning hours, does that happen to you as well?

Yes, all three times with me, (something to look forward to when waking up, NOT...) because that's when your kidney's kick in the early am. Stress is a pretty amazing thing, isn't it.

One more example of what stress can do to you, not kidney stone related. My Mom passed in July of 2010, her twin brother 28 days later, upon receiving news of his passing, I got a dull pain in my chest about two hours after getting that phone call that did not go away for two weeks. Long story short it was not my heart (checked by medical tests) but stress hormones released by a part of my brain. In a little over two weeks it had passed, and went away on its own. Cause and effect, I rest my case.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

It really burns me up that our solution to criminal abuse is to punish the good people.

I agree Evo, you must remember that addicts are desperate because of their addiction and will sacrifice anyone or anything to get drugs. The pharmacy's and super market's are taking measures to make sure it does not happen, it is sad and frustrating for the honest folk like yourself who could stand to benefit from them when really needed.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Removing the stent sucked, and the next half day was pretty uncomfortable, but now I feel pretty good. Everything is returning to normal. Even kicked it a bit at the gym today, rowing, elliptical (cardio) for an hour and about 85% of my maximum, much higher level than usual. Felt good after as well. The adrenaline rushes have stopped too, I am convinced they are somehow related to blood in the urine, or perhaps the effect of the stent, will never know for sure though. The stone was almost like a smooth crystal, when the Doc hit with the laser it blew into a million pieces, perhaps the smooth shape explains how it could have worked it's way down the ureter in the first place, only to grow in size, and why urine was able to pass smoothly (most of the time) by it. Like I said before, I will never take feeling good again for granted. The stone biopsy won't be back for a week, have to have another sonogram to make sure the kidney has returned to normal size. Once the Doc knows what the stone is made of then I can do sensible things to keep it from happening again. I just wish this was the case for Jimmy Snyder. I feel for you, really, I do.

Rhody...

 

[Nano-Passion]

My sister first visited the emergency room for her kidney stone at the age of 14. =/

 

[rhody]

My sister first visited the emergency room for her kidney stone at the age of 14. =/

Nano,

So sorry to hear that, has she since corrected what she needed to to prevent another one ? I can't imagine a teenager experiencing that kind of pain, it must have been terrifying for you and the whole family.

Rhody...

 

[Nano-Passion]

Nano,

So sorry to hear that, has she since corrected what she needed to to prevent another one ? I can't imagine a teenager experiencing that kind of pain, it must have been terrifying for you and the whole family.

Rhody...

She is doing what she can, especially because she is still young so she isn't completely strict [almost 16]. I recently found out that she's been getting some minor pain/uncomfort when she sleeps.. something that she has been hiding away from the family for reasons I'm not aware of.

I'm a little worried, I know a very nice friend and professor at my college that has had 40 kidney stones over the span of his life.

 

[rhody]

Reading these posts, I thought the same thing Rhody. Having a kidney stone as a kid has got to be one of the most traumatic experiences a child could experience. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would hate it if my daughter had a kidney stone. I don't think I could bear it.

Shannon,

Quick correct diagnosis is important, and treatment for removing the stone (above 3cm is vital) I had a 9mm one that probably got stuck in the ureter as a small one, then grew over time, near the bladder (low), it was made of calcium oxalate (think rock candy for how it looks, bundled crystals), removing it using laser was a breeze, having a stent in for nine days, no fun but tolerable (everyone is different so anyone else may have more or less pain than I).

To add insult to injury two weeks later I got a mild case of the shingles, guess where ? Right in the area of the right kidney and ureter, coincidence ? Not to me. I got on an anti-viral right away and they virus spreading has stopped. But I still have pain in the area, the rash and underlying pain normally takes 3 to 5 weeks to clear, but if you get a bad case like my brother in law did, he is about 10 years younger than me, he has pain now and then from the underlying nerve damage. As you get older it gets worse, my doctor said , if you are over 50 and get shingles (rash) get to a Dr. within 48 hours to get on anti-virals. If you wait too long they do no good. I am glad I called my brother in law and not wait over the weekend. I called the Dr and got anti-virals that night.

Just a thought before I close Shannon, is there any test your Dr can perform to see if your child is predisposed to them ? Staying hydrated, 4 - 8 glasses of water a day is important to help prevent their formation. Good luck.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

It is eleven days since my last post, the rash has waned and is disappearing, that is the good news, the bad news is that the underlying nerve pain hasn't really gone away, it is localized on my right side. The anti-virals appear to have done their job. I can't imagine what the residual nerve pain would be like if it were across my back or chest. That would be bad, it would interfere with sleeping, bathing, etc... I feel for people who have had to go through it. In three to six months I plan to get the booster vaccine that will hopefully prevent another outbreak. They are available from folks in the 50 - 62 year age bracket to the best of my knowledge, I may not be exact with the age group, so check with your Doctor.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

It is eleven days since my last post, the rash has waned and is disappearing, that is the good news, the bad news is that the underlying nerve pain hasn't really gone away, it is localized on my right side. The anti-virals appear to have done their job. I can't imagine what the residual nerve pain would be like if it were across my back or chest. That would be bad, it would interfere with sleeping, bathing, etc... I feel for people who have had to go through it. In three to six months I plan to get the booster vaccine that will hopefully prevent another outbreak. They are available from folks in the 50 - 62 year age bracket to the best of my knowledge, I may not be exact with the age group, so check with your Doctor.

Rhody...

You poor thing. My bad luck is rubbing off on you.

 

[rhody]

You poor thing. My bad luck is rubbing off on you.

Nooo... say it isn't so...

Rhody...