Phoenix craft to dig under Mars ice (landing planned 25 May)

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The Phoenix spacecraft is set to land on Mars on May 25, using a parachute and retro-rockets to reach a level plain believed to have ice just below the surface. Equipped with a digging tool, Phoenix aims to collect samples from the ice layer and the soil beneath it, which is of significant interest due to its potential exposure to water. Live coverage of the landing will be available on the Discovery Science channel and NASA TV. Initial reports confirm the successful deployment of solar panels, allowing the spacecraft to operate without relying on battery power. The mission's progress is being closely monitored, with updates on the functionality of its arm and other instruments, including a lidar for atmospheric analysis.
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http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/11767.html

25 May it will parachute down and at the last moment let go the chute and use retrorockets

it will not land on the polar icecap itself but on a level plain where they think there is ice a foot or so down below surface

it has a digging tool so it can dig down and take samples from the presumed ice layer and also sample the SOIL immediately beneath the ice---which is of special interest because of its exposure to water.

onboard chemical analysis
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
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B. Elliott, thank for the links!

There is a beautiful animation of the landing and deployment as it is supposed to go
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080525m.html

It is a real treat to watch. The initial fiery descent, with the heat shield. The paracute sequence. And the animation puts it all against a backdrop of Mars landscape and clouds. Then it shows disconnecting from the parachute and free-fall followed by firing the retro-rockets and the actual landing. Then the beautiful way the various things unfold.

Here's hoping all goes as planned. I guess we will know in a few hours. Supposed to start around 7:30 PM Eastern.
 
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marcus said:
B. Elliott, thank for the links!

There is a beautiful animation of the landing and deployment as it is supposed to go
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080525m.html

It is a real treat to watch. The initial fiery descent, with the heat shield. The paracute sequence. And the animation puts it all against a backdrop of Mars landscape and clouds. Then it shows disconnecting from the parachute and free-fall followed by firing the retro-rockets and the actual landing. Then the beautiful way the various things unfold.

Here's hoping all goes as planned. I guess we will know in a few hours. Supposed to start around 7:30 PM Eastern.

You're welcome marcus. Thank you for posting the complete entry animation. I've seen snippets, but not the complete film till now.

Here's two informative Youtube videos that I posted in the GD section...

I really liked the production with this one...




I'm anxious to see how this mission unfolds considering this is the first thruster landing in quite some time, and this being the first time we're actually digging to a considerable depth. I do wish that we were digging on an order of meters rather than just inches, though. Can't wait till we do!
 
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T-9 minutes!
 
Yay successful landing! How exciting. :)
 
This is excellent news. I can't wait to learn about what it uncovers.
 
Me too. :biggrin:

Another piece of good news
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_25_endofday.php

the Phoenix made a second transmission a couple of hours after the first short report of touchdown. The second transmission sent a PICTURE and it confirmed that the solar panels had unfolded and deployed properly.

So now it no longer has to rely on chemical battery power. It hasn't tried out its 7 foot long digging arm yet, but it looks like otherwise it is in business and can start work.

here's an earlier press release made after touchdown
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_25_landed_pr.php

these seem like good press releases, so we should keep watching the site to get more
here is one link
http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/news.php
and that offers a number of resources including this NEWS ARCHIVE with current and past press releases:
http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/newsArchive.php

there is also a picture gallery including a dozen or so pictures taken by Phoenix

these are links that all branch out from the one B. Elliott gave earlier---I am gradually learning to navigate the Phoenix site and find what I want.
 
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  • #10
marcus said:
Me too. :biggrin:

Another piece of good news
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_25_endofday.php

the Phoenix made a second transmission a couple of hours after the first short report of touchdown. The second transmission sent a PICTURE and it confirmed that the solar panels had unfolded and deployed properly.

So now it no longer has to rely on chemical battery power. It hasn't tried out its 7 foot long digging arm yet, but it looks like otherwise it is in business and can start work.

here's an earlier press release made after touchdown
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_25_landed_pr.php

these seem like good press releases, so we should keep watching the site to get more
here is one link
http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/news.php
and that offers a number of resources including this NEWS ARCHIVE with current and past press releases:
http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/newsArchive.php

there is also a picture gallery including a dozen or so pictures taken by Phoenix

these are links that all branch out from the one B. Elliott gave earlier---I am gradually learning to navigate the Phoenix site and find what I want.

Yeah! We've got the laser that's checking climate on the Phoenix. Built in Canada what what... pity!.

Congrats you beautiful Americans! Thanks for the 400 million mile ride! (typical Canucks always hitchin' a ride.)
 
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  • #11
Thanks for the links Marcus. It's amazing how there was little to no dust on the solar arrays after they deployed! Now that the Phoenix can harness the sun's energy as best as possible let's just see how it holds up during the Martian nights. =)
 
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  • #12
If this isn't already posted, here's where the photos are being uploaded as they come in...

http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/gallery.php
 
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  • #13
Here's what the Canadian Space Agency contributed to the Phoenix Mars probe.

http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/eng/exploration/phoenix.asp

There's some job opportunities there as well, hint hint.
 
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  • #14
Just to keep this updated. Yesterday 28 May they sent it the command to move its arm.

So we are waiting for confirmation that it can successfully unfold and extend its arm for digging. If anybody has some news on that, please post it!
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_28_pr.php
NASA's Phoenix Spacecraft Commanded to Unstow Arm
 
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  • #15
marcus said:
Just to keep this updated. Yesterday 28 May they sent it the command to move its arm.

So we are waiting for confirmation that it can successfully unfold and extend its arm for digging. If anybody has some news on that, please post it!
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_28_pr.php
NASA's Phoenix Spacecraft Commanded to Unstow Arm

Radio glitch delays preparations for digging on Mars

Plans for the Phoenix lander to begin scientific work on the surface of Mars were delayed Tuesday when a radio aboard a reconnaissance spacecraft circling the planet inexplicably failed to turn on to deliver new commands to the ground, NASA scientists reported.
But the scientists insisted they have backup plans and that the full menu of scientific projects will not be jeopardized. Fuk Li, manager of the Mars exploration program for the NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory said a "transient event," perhaps an encounter with a high-speed cosmic ray particle, may have shut down the radio, which sends a daily sequence of work commands to Phoenix.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2008-05-26-phoenix-prep_N.htm
 
  • #16
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_29_pr.php
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Puts Arm and Other Tools to Work

so the arm is now unstowed and functional

Part of the 29 May report is about the LIDAR:

"Another milestone for the mission included the activation of the laser instrument called light detection and ranging instrument, or lidar.

"The Canadians are walking on moonbeams. It's a huge achievement for us," said Jim Whiteway Canadian Science lead from York University, Toronto. The lidar is a critical component of Phoenix's weather station, provided by the Canadian Space Agency. The instrument is designed to detect dust, clouds and fog by emitting rapid pulses of green laser-like light into the atmosphere. The light bounces off particles and is reflected back to a telescope.

"One of the main challenges we faced was to deliver the lidar from the test lab in Ottawa, Canada, to Mars while maintaining its alignment within one one-hundredth of a degree," said Whiteway. "That's like aiming a laser pointer at a baseball at a distance from home plate to the center field wall, holding that aim steady after launch for a year in space, then landing," he added.

Lidar data shows dust aloft to a height of 3.5 kilometers (2 miles). The weather at the Phoenix landing site on the second day following landing was sunny with moderate dust, with a high of minus 30 degrees Celsius (minus 22 degrees Fahrenheit) and a low of minus 80 (minus 112 degrees Fahrenheit)."
 
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  • #17
marcus said:
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_29_pr.php
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Puts Arm and Other Tools to Work

so the arm is now unstowed and functional

Part of the 29 May report is about the LIDAR:

"Another milestone for the mission included the activation of the laser instrument called light detection and ranging instrument, or lidar.

"The Canadians are walking on moonbeams. It's a huge achievement for us," said Jim Whiteway Canadian Science lead from York University, Toronto. The lidar is a critical component of Phoenix's weather station, provided by the Canadian Space Agency. The instrument is designed to detect dust, clouds and fog by emitting rapid pulses of green laser-like light into the atmosphere. The light bounces off particles and is reflected back to a telescope.

"One of the main challenges we faced was to deliver the lidar from the test lab in Ottawa, Canada, to Mars while maintaining its alignment within one one-hundredth of a degree," said Whiteway. "That's like aiming a laser pointer at a baseball at a distance from home plate to the center field wall, holding that aim steady after launch for a year in space, then landing," he added.

Lidar data shows dust aloft to a height of 3.5 kilometers (2 miles). The weather at the Phoenix landing site on the second day following landing was sunny with moderate dust, with a high of minus 30 degrees Celsius (minus 22 degrees Fahrenheit) and a low of minus 80 (minus 112 degrees Fahrenheit)."

Yep! Walking on Moombeams! Pretty cool! :-p

Last time I saw "Lidar" spelt out, it was "Ledar".
 
  • #18
baywax said:
Last time I saw "Lidar" spelt out, it was "Ledar".

I don't know which is the preferred spelling, amongst the techies.
I've also seen it spelled Ladar (for laser detection and ranging)

Wikipedia says Lidar (for light detection and ranging)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

Apparently the work was done at York U. Toronto, or at least the director is based there. Do you have any extra background detail that might be of interest? I gather there is a Canada Space Agency laboratory at Ottawa, where the device was checked out before they shipped it.
 
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  • #19
marcus said:
I don't know which is the preferred spelling, amongst the techies.
I've also seen it spelled Ladar (for laser detection and ranging)

Wikipedia says Lidar (for light detection and ranging)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

I've heard the folks at JPL pronounce it 'Lidar' a few times. I also think I remember seeing it spelled that way on the Phoenix site.
 
  • #20
B. Elliott said:
I've heard the folks at JPL pronounce it 'Lidar' a few times. I also think I remember seeing it spelled that way on the Phoenix site.

I've seen it that way too. Ledar may be derived from the Quebequoi "Le dar" (... just kidding).
 
  • #21
some lumps undetermined whether rock or ice

a picture underneath lander taken by robot arm camera
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=992&cID=33
shows some lumps exposed when the retrorocket blew away soil during landing

if you move the cursor underneath the photograph, the caption will appear.
the caption says these lumps could be either rock or ice and they can't tell which at the moment (have to take better pictures, in color, and see if there is some change during the day

there was some more about this in a 30 May release
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_30_pr.php
this release refers to the unidentified lumps as "possible ice" (but they are also quite possibly just rock)
here's a link to go back to for latest news.
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/news.php
It gives the same photo
 
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  • #23
Absolutely fascinating...
 
  • #24
Next news briefing - June 3 at 2pm Eastern.

By chance, would anyone happen to be aware of at least an audio archive of all the news briefings so far? I missed one and feel as though I lost out on quite a bit of information... they're very informative.
 
  • #25
The news briefs on NASA ch are amazing.
Questions get asked and then, omg ... unlike most news briefings, get answered.

I wonder if politicians could try it out now and again. Well done to all involved in the project. Very well done.
 
  • #26
Close up of suspected ice

I've seen a lot of ice, this is looking icy...

http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=1348&cID=35

Look at that, we're doing national marketing on Mars (close up of LIDAR)

http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=995&cID=33
 
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  • #27
Here's a neat site I found that's providing fairly up to date events and facts. I find the 1st person wording to be a bit strange though.

http://twitter.com/Marsphoenix
 
  • #29
Not Good

It seems as the soil is too "clumpy" to go through the filter of the thermal scanning machine. Thr soil particles have to be less than .04" inch in diameter I heard.
 
  • #30
NYSportsguy said:
It seems as the soil is too "clumpy" to go through the filter of the thermal scanning machine. Thr soil particles have to be less than .04" inch in diameter I heard.

Isn't there some kind of agitator to reduce the "clumpiness"?
 
  • #31
Perhaps

Either that or they can possibly scoop up less soil next time and then try to break it up using the other mechanical arm. I am assuming the soil has moisture in it which is causing the "clumpiness".

Perhaps drying the sample first would be prudent (unless you want to measure it's actual moisture content w/o any interference.
 
  • #32
Maybe NASA needs to hire some high school students to oversee their projects and eliminate mistakes that should be obvious. They seem to have brilliant scientists with no common sense. They need to screen the sample to 1mm but no one thought to ask, "what if it doesn't fit through a 1 mm screen"? I would have thought that would be a question that would immediately occur to them when designing the experiment. Maybe a high school student could have suggested, "at the risk of exceeding our 450 million dollar budget, maybe we should include a 20 dollar coffee grinder just in case".

Hopefully this will not go down in history with the Mars Climate Orbiter that failed to make it because it didn't occur to anyone that some of the engineers were working in metric instead of English measurements.
 
  • #33
Haha that was funny Dilletante.
 
  • #34
dilletante said:
Maybe NASA needs to hire some high school students to oversee their projects and eliminate mistakes that should be obvious. They seem to have brilliant scientists with no common sense. They need to screen the sample to 1mm but no one thought to ask, "what if it doesn't fit through a 1 mm screen"? I would have thought that would be a question that would immediately occur to them when designing the experiment. Maybe a high school student could have suggested, "at the risk of exceeding our 450 million dollar budget, maybe we should include a 20 dollar coffee grinder just in case".

Hopefully this will not go down in history with the Mars Climate Orbiter that failed to make it because it didn't occur to anyone that some of the engineers were working in metric instead of English measurements.

Give it a chance. But holy cow. I think you're right. Next time hire some gardeners to design that apparatus.

It is a good point however, keeping the moisture in the "clump" may be a priority.

Were the former inhabitants of Mars Martian Cats... who used clumping kitty litter?
 
  • #35
Surface clumpiness is not, in my mind, a huge surprise. Another scoop in the same place should yield some particulates.
 
  • #36
They are still working on it. I guess they assumed the soil was powdery. Ooops.

The thought is that ice, ostensibly frozen water, is binding the particles.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phoenix-20080609.html

Martian soil continues to cause problems for Phoenix.
AIAA Daily Launch said:
The Los Angeles Times (6/10, Johnson) reports, "In a series of maneuvers that sounds more like cooking class than research...scientists said Monday they would try one more time to shake bits of the clumpy Martian soil into a test oven on NASA's Phoenix lander before switching to a backup strategy that called for dribbling the soil into the oven." So far, two attempts have failed to get soil into the Thermal Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) oven. According to TEGA lead scientist William Boynton, on the last attempt to shake the lander "[a] few tiny particles fell into the oven, but the sample was too small." The "clumpiness" of the soil, which is blamed for its inability to reach the oven, may be from the presence of water. "The problem with the oven is the latest in a series of glitches." According to Boynton, the researchers "deally...would by now have completed the first analysis of the Martian surface and would be well on the way to digging into the ice layer."

The San Francisco Chronicle (6/10, A2, Perlman) adds, that "Boynton tried commanding the scoop to sprinkle just a little bit of the shaken soil at a time into another of the ovens," but "may not know whether they were successful for another day or two after messages are relayed from Mars via the Mars Odyssey." Boynton said, "We were worried about not having enough soil to work with," but "now we know we have more than enough to dribble just a little bit at a time into the ovens, and we're pretty confident that will work."

The Arizona Republic (6/10, Ryman) notes, "Scientists believe the dirt clods could be caused by moisture created when the lander's powerful thrusters helped the craft land. The clumping also could be from salts in the soil, said Doug Ming, a member of the Phoenix science team" from the Johnson Space Center.
 
  • #37
Astronuc said:
They are still working on it. I guess they assumed the soil was powdery. Ooops.

Assumptions eh? :biggrin:

Just off the top of my head though...Wasn't one of the biggest reasons (if not the reason) for sending the Phoenix in the first place to "confirm" scientists belief that Mars once had open surface water similar to Earth? :confused:

Could this issue with the clumpy soil be because they failed to provide for a scenario where their hypothesis actually tested true?

I mean, unless all the engineers who worked on this project comes from the tropics, couldn't they just have attempted a dig in the garden in winter first, to know that frozen soil very rarely comes in "a couple of millimetres in diameter" packages. :rolleyes:

Or am I completely on the wrong track here?
 
  • #38
baywax said:
Give it a chance. But holy cow. I think you're right. Next time hire some gardeners to design that apparatus.
Phoenix does have a shaker to break up the soil. It didn't work the first time around. They tried additional shaking. That didn't work, either. The tried sprinkling it on rather than dump. That appears to have worked!

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phoenix-20080610.html"
NASA said:
On Monday, Phoenix tested delivering Martian soil by sprinkling it rather than dumping it. The positive result prompted researchers not only to proceed with plans for delivery to the microscope, but also to plan on sprinkling a sample in the near future into one of the eight ovens of an instrument that bakes and sniffs samples, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA.

The sprinkling method developed a few months ago by members of Phoenix's arm and microscope teams uses vibration of the tilted scoop by a motorized rasp to gently jostle some material out, instead of turning the scoop over to empty it. The rasp is located on the back of the scoop and will be used later in the mission to scrape up samples of subsurface ice.
 
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  • #39
I am very confident the system will work. One more scoop ... give me one more scoop.
 
  • #40
Chronos said:
I am very confident the system will work. One more scoop ... give me one more scoop.

Is there anyway they can order the shovel to break up the soil before scooping some of it up?

Here's a shot of the "clods" in the shovel.

http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=3240&cID=49
 
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  • #41
phyzmatix said:
Assumptions eh? :biggrin:

Just off the top of my head though...Wasn't one of the biggest reasons (if not the reason) for sending the Phoenix in the first place to "confirm" scientists belief that Mars once had open surface water similar to Earth? :confused:

Could this issue with the clumpy soil be because they failed to provide for a scenario where their hypothesis actually tested true?

I mean, unless all the engineers who worked on this project comes from the tropics, couldn't they just have attempted a dig in the garden in winter first, to know that frozen soil very rarely comes in "a couple of millimetres in diameter" packages. :rolleyes:

Or am I completely on the wrong track here?
JPL is in Pasadena, CA, and unless they go up into the Sierra Nevada range or up into N. Cal or Oregon/Washington, these guys never see snow or freezing weather. I think they take prototypes into the desert, but I suspect they never took it to a place where the ground was frozen.

They should have put a heat ray on the vehicle, but then that might alarm the locals. :biggrin:
 
  • #42
D H said:
Phoenix does have a shaker to break up the soil. It didn't work the first time around. They tried additional shaking. That didn't work, either. The tried sprinkling it on rather than dump. That appears to have worked!
Ah - the old 'shake and bake' method! :biggrin: It works every time. :smile:
 
  • #43
Astronuc said:
JPL is in Pasadena, CA, and unless they go up into the Sierra Nevada range or up into N. Cal or Oregon/Washington, these guys never see snow or freezing weather.
The robotic arm was built at JPL, but the TEGA (the analyzer) wasn't.

It was built by the University of Arizona and the University of Texas/Dallas.

I think they take prototypes into the desert, but I suspect they never took it to a place where the ground was frozen.
NASA and JPL test a lot of the equipment destined for Mars in the dry valleys in Antarctica.

They must have tested this arm in a suitable environment, no? yes?

Here's a blog by one of the Phoenix qual testers: http://fawkes1.lpl.arizona.edu/blogsPost.php?bID=119"
The [noparse][Engineering Qualification Models][/noparse] come to the Payload Interoperability Testbed (and yes we call it the PIT) at Science Operations Center here in Tucson. We build a complete representative and functional robot here. The "flight" models go to Denver to be added to the avionics which is the part to fly it to and land it on Mars.​

OK, maybe not the qual testing, but they did test some prototype in a suitable environment? Please?
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science_ra.php"
A similar RA developed for the Mars Polar Lander was tested at Death Valley in 2000 and successfully dug a 10 inch trench in just under 4 hours. The extremely hard soil conditions at Death Valley are similar to those expected at Phoenix's martian arctic landing site.​

Well, at least they tested a similar robotic arm outside ... in Death Valley ... ARGGHHH!
 
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  • #44
D H said:
The robotic arm was built at JPL, but the TEGA (the analyzer) wasn't.

It was built by the University of Arizona and the University of Texas/Dallas.


NASA and JPL test a lot of the equipment destined for Mars in the dry valleys in Antarctica.

They must have tested this arm in a suitable environment, no? yes?

Here's a blog by one of the Phoenix qual testers: http://fawkes1.lpl.arizona.edu/blogsPost.php?bID=119"
The [noparse][Engineering Qualification Models][/noparse] come to the Payload Interoperability Testbed (and yes we call it the PIT) at Science Operations Center here in Tucson. We build a complete representative and functional robot here. The "flight" models go to Denver to be added to the avionics which is the part to fly it to and land it on Mars.​

OK, maybe not the qual testing, but they did test some prototype in a suitable environment? Please?
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science_ra.php"
A similar RA developed for the Mars Polar Lander was tested at Death Valley in 2000 and successfully dug a 10 inch trench in just under 4 hours. The extremely hard soil conditions at Death Valley are similar to those expected at Phoenix's martian arctic landing site.​

Well, at least they tested a similar robotic arm outside ... in Death Valley ... ARGGHHH!

Death Valley rocks!
 
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  • #45
Astronuc said:
JPL is in Pasadena, CA, and unless they go up into the Sierra Nevada range or up into N. Cal or Oregon/Washington, these guys never see snow or freezing weather. I think they take prototypes into the desert, but I suspect they never took it to a place where the ground was frozen.

Deserts do funny things to people, perhaps they saw their unchallenged success in a mirage? :biggrin:

Astronuc said:
They should have put a heat ray on the vehicle, but then that might alarm the locals. :biggrin:

:smile:
 
  • #49
phyzmatix said:
Phoenix finds ice

Close up of disappearing matter.

http://fawkes1.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=6936&cID=89
 
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  • #50
I saw it on a YAHOO! link recently. They are talking about the Mars lander finding ice and a guy clumsily is explaining how the robotic arm plans to "shake" the dirt and ice in its bin to make the grains smaller to fit into that "oven" contraption.

Go to www.yahoo.com right now and check out the video link.
 

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