University of Toronto or Waterloo?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the choice between various university programs in Ontario, specifically Engineering Science and Physics at the University of Toronto, and Nanotechnology Engineering and Physics at the University of Waterloo. Participants express concerns about program quality, GPA implications, and the depth of theoretical knowledge provided by different programs.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about the GPA impact of the physics and mathematics programs at UofT, citing negative opinions from another member, vincebs.
  • Some participants mention that Waterloo's physics programs may not be as strong as those at UofT, McGill, or Queen's.
  • There is a viewpoint that the choice of university for undergraduate physics may not significantly affect future opportunities, suggesting that performance on standardized exams may reflect student quality rather than educational quality.
  • Concerns are raised about the theoretical focus in engineering programs, with some participants noting that students often switch from engineering to science due to a perceived lack of depth in theory.
  • Another participant mentions the existence of two Mathematical Physics programs at Waterloo, which are housed in different faculties but are similar in content.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the reputation of the physics department at Waterloo, with one participant describing it as "messy" without providing specific details.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express mixed opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of the programs at UofT and Waterloo, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus on which program is superior.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference anecdotal experiences and opinions about program quality and departmental reputation, but these claims lack detailed evidence or consensus. The discussion reflects personal concerns and uncertainties regarding the implications of their choices.

Who May Find This Useful

High school students in Ontario considering university programs in physics, mathematics, or engineering, as well as those interested in the reputations of specific university departments.

PE2
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Hello, I am in my final year of High School in Ontario (Canada), and I must soon choose which University program to attend in September.

The following programs are what I am trying to decide between:

- Engineering Science (University of Toronto)
- Physics (University of Toronto) [or Mathematics and Physics]
- Nanotechnology Engineering (University of Waterloo)
- http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/programs/math_phys.html (University of Waterloo)

I have already looked into the programs quite a bit and found that all of them provide the option of pursuing physics in graduate school (given I choose the physics option in Engineering Science, or in Nanotechnology Engineering). What I am concerned about is the level of preparation that each program provides.

I have read some posts by a member called vincebs, and he seems to be strongly against the physics/mathematics and physics programs at UofT because they apparently keep the students' GPAs very low.

On the other hand, some people say that Waterloo's physics programs are not very strong compared to Universities like UofT, McGill, or Queen's.

And then, many others say that where one studies physics at the undergraduate level does not matter at all. This would imply that performance on the http://www.cap.ca/edu/puniprzex.html says more about the kind of students that attend a University, rather than the quality of the education at that University (UofT students often perform well in this exam, whereas Waterloo students rarely place very high).

The engineering programs at both Universities are attractive in that they both seem to provide a great deal of breadth, but I am worried that if I choose to pursue physics through a BASc degree then I would be at a disadvantage due to the lesser focus on theory in engineering math and science courses. I have read that many students have switched from engineering to science for this reason.

Overall, what would you people recommend? I am interested in learning theory, since I like to have a deep understanding of how things work and why they work in that way (this applies to both math and science concepts), but I am also interested in studying a wider range of sciences which engineering programs seem to offer, and possibly science programs with enough electives.

I know there are members here who are currently enrolled in the programs I am trying to choose between - input from them would be very helpful.

Thank you, and sorry for the length.
 
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I'm in the same boat. Though I'm deciding between Physics or Math and Physics at UofT. Maybe EngSci? I'm kinda stuck at UofT now since I already payed my 1st month's rent!

The only other program I applied for the Waterloo Physics. Though I heard they have a messy physics department. That shouldn't be a problem for you since Mathematical Physics is under the Math department.

Vincebs is scaring me!

PE2 are you going to UofT next weekend?
 
Bright Wang said:
The only other program I applied for the Waterloo Physics. Though I heard they have a messy physics department. That shouldn't be a problem for you since Mathematical Physics is under the Math department.
Well, there are actually two Mathematical Physics programs at Waterloo; one of them is in the science faculty, and the other in the math faculty. They differ very slightly, and overall the programs span over both faculties anyway.

And can you elaborate on what you've heard of the physics department being "messy"?

Vincebs is scaring me!
Me too. Coupled with the other failure stories I've heard coming from UofT, I have been left slightly hesitant of going there.

PE2 are you going to UofT next weekend?
What's happening? Regardless, it's a fairly long distance for me, and visiting UofT and UW during the March break open house events gave me a pretty good overview of the Universities.
 
Hi PE2. I just heard its messy, haha. I don't have a clue what that means. I just heard the math department is a lot better than the physics department. I don't know the details.

Oh next weekend is the POPTOR weekend. I just though your in Ontario and doing physics so you might go.

Oh and check out "Physics Universities in Canada: Specifics" if you haven't.
 

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