Interchanging partial derivatives and integrals

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interchangeability of partial derivatives and integrals, specifically examining the expression \(\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\int^{t}_{0}F(t, \tau) \partial \tau\). Participants explore whether these operations commute and what the implications are if they do not.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if there is a theorem analogous to the fundamental theorem of calculus regarding the interchange of partial differentiation and integration.
  • Another participant suggests using a specific formula related to variable limits to express the derivative of the integral.
  • A different participant confirms the formula provided, under certain conditions regarding the function \(F\), such as being piecewise smooth and continuous at \(\tau=t\).
  • There is mention of using the Heaviside step function and its implications in the context of distributions and delta functions.
  • One participant attempts to derive an expression for the derivative of a convolution based on the discussed formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the conditions under which the interchange of operations holds, and while some agree on the formula's validity under specific conditions, others introduce alternative approaches, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding general applicability.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the smoothness and continuity of the function \(F\), as well as the implications of using generalized functions like the Heaviside step function.

lugita15
Messages
1,553
Reaction score
15
In the midst of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=403002", I came upon a rather interesting, though probably elementary, question. Analagous to the fundamental theorem of calculus, is there a formula or theorem concerning the expression [tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\int^{t}_{0}F(t, \tau) \partial \tau[/tex]. In other words, does partial differentiation with respect to one variable commute with partial integration with respect to the other variable? If they don't commute, what is the relation between the two operations?

The fundamental theorem of calculus (well, the first part anyway) came from the non-rigorous intuition that [tex]\int^{x+dx}_{x}f(t)dt=f(x)dx[/tex]. Can a similar intuitive statement be made about [tex]\int^{t+dt}_{t}F(t, \tau) \partial \tau[/tex]? We know it has to be proportional to [tex]dt[/tex], but what is the constant of proportionality?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
If you don't want to use the Heaviside step function, as I suggested in the other thread, you might prefer this
 
gabbagabbahey said:
If you don't want to use the Heaviside step function, as I suggested in the other thread, you might prefer this
Thanks. That's exactly the kind of thing I wanted. Using the formula in the end of the subsection entitled "General form with variable limits," I get
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\int^{t}_{0}F(t, \tau) \partial \tau = F(t,t)+\int^{t}_{0}\frac{\partial F}{\partial t} \partial \tau[/tex]
 
That's correct; provided [itex]F[/itex] is piecewise smooth everywhere, exponentially bounded, and continuous at [itex]\tau=t[/itex] . You'd get the same thing using the Heaviside step function (really a distribution or generalized function, not an ordinary function) since its derivative is a delta function.
 
Based on this formula, in the other thread I just tried to write an expression for the derivative of a convolution. I hope I'm right.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K