How can I Bel-decompose the Riemann tensor over SO(3,3)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Bel-decomposition of the Riemann tensor in the context of the group SO(3,3). Participants explore the theoretical framework and mathematical procedures involved in this decomposition, referencing concepts from general relativity and tensor analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks references for Bel-decomposing the Riemann tensor over SO(3,3), noting the topic's elusive nature.
  • Another participant suggests that the Riemann tensor can be split into parts based on the indices' positions in the first or second 3-spaces, referring to these parts as 'electric' and 'magnetic'.
  • A participant describes a method for considering antisymmetric pairs of indices and proposes that the decomposition will have six parts based on symmetry considerations.
  • Further elaboration indicates that a definite procedure exists for decomposing the Riemann tensor, akin to the Ricci decomposition, but details are not recalled by the participant.
  • One participant mentions the need for a time-like congruence in the decomposition process and speculates on the existence of four pieces in general, with only three surviving in four dimensions.
  • Another participant discusses the use of projection operators in the decomposition, noting the absence of a single time-like congruence in SO(3,3) due to the three-dimensional nature of time.
  • Participants reference a paper by Deser that relates the Bel-Robinson tensor to the Riemann tensor, drawing analogies to the Maxwell energy tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of uncertainty regarding the specifics of the decomposition process, and no consensus is reached on the exact method or details involved in the Bel-decomposition of the Riemann tensor over SO(3,3).

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in recalling specific procedures and the need for further references, indicating that assumptions about the dimensionality of time and the nature of congruences may affect the decomposition approach.

deSitter
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Hello,

I need to Bel-decompose the Riemann tensor built over SO(3,3). Does anyone have a decent reference? Funny how this topic is elusive. Is this in Wald?

Thanks in advance.

-drl
 
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Not sure what you want, but I'll take a stab at it. You have Rabcd, and you want to split it into parts according to whether the indices lie in the first or second 3-spaces. Bel calls the parts 'electric' and 'magnetic', and SO(3,3) is like Minkowski space except that time is three dimensional. Whatever :-)

Consider first one antisymmetric pair of indices by itself, ab. They can lie in either 11, 12 or 22. That's three cases. Likewise for the second pair, cd. So you have a 3 x 3 matrix of cases, except that Rabcd is symmetric on the two pairs, so the 3 x 3 matrix is symmetrical and there are really only 6 cases: 1111, 1112, 1122, 1212. 1222 and 2222. The decomposition will therefore have six parts.

Is this anywhere near what you want?
 
Bill_K said:
Not sure what you want, but I'll take a stab at it. You have Rabcd, and you want to split it into parts according to whether the indices lie in the first or second 3-spaces. Bel calls the parts 'electric' and 'magnetic', and SO(3,3) is like Minkowski space except that time is three dimensional. Whatever :-)

Consider first one antisymmetric pair of indices by itself, ab. They can lie in either 11, 12 or 22. That's three cases. Likewise for the second pair, cd. So you have a 3 x 3 matrix of cases, except that Rabcd is symmetric on the two pairs, so the 3 x 3 matrix is symmetrical and there are really only 6 cases: 1111, 1112, 1122, 1212. 1222 and 2222. The decomposition will therefore have six parts.

Is this anywhere near what you want?

Not really - there is a definite procedure here for carving up the Riemann tensor, sort of like the Ricci decomposition, but I'll be damned if I can remember the details. You need a time-like congruence, which should still exist for SO(3,3) because there is still a light cone. Well I can't remember where I saw this, and need the details. There are actually 4 pieces in general, only 3 survive in 4-d, where they represent tidal distortion and tendency to rotate in the congruence, and the sectional curvatures of the space-like surface orthogonal to the time-like congruence.

edit: Ok I found a paper by Deser talking about it - great! The Bel-Robinson tensor in 4-d is basically sort of like the Maxwell energy tensor in reference to Fmn, that is, you can write Maxwell as

Tmn = Fma Fan + F*ma F*an

and the Bel-Robinson tensor is

Bmnab = Rkmjn Rkajb + R*kmjn R*kajb

where R*mnab = 1/2 epsilon_mnrs Rrsab

I'm speculating that if you think of Rmnab as a thing have two 2-form indices ("surface tensor of 2nd rank" as Pauli called it), then the analogy is exact.

paper by Deser is here

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9901007

-drl
 
Last edited:
The timelike congruence Xa used in 4 dimensions is really a projection operator. You need to use two projectors, one projecting on the space dimensions, the other on the time dimension(s). In 4-d, since time is one-dimensional, the projectors can be written in terms of a timelike congruence Xa, namely Pab = XaXb and Qab = nab - XaXb. The Riemann tensor is decomposed by applying one of these projectors to each of the four indices. Taking into account the symmetry of the indices, you wind up with a decomposition into three independent parts.

What I'm saying is that you do likewise in SO(3,3). You still have Pab and Qab, but there's no Xa any longer because 'time' is 3-dimensional. (I suppose if you really insisted on it you could use three congruences and define Pab = XaXb + YaYb + ZaZb.) Project each index onto either the timelike subspace or the spacelike subspace. You'll wind up with six independent parts. For example the first one which I wrote as 1111 earlier would be RabcdPaiPbjPckPdl. The next one would be RabcdPaiPbjPckQdl, and so on.
 
Bill_K said:
The timelike congruence Xa used in 4 dimensions is really a projection operator. You need to use two projectors, one projecting on the space dimensions, the other on the time dimension(s). In 4-d, since time is one-dimensional, the projectors can be written in terms of a timelike congruence Xa, namely Pab = XaXb and Qab = nab - XaXb. The Riemann tensor is decomposed by applying one of these projectors to each of the four indices. Taking into account the symmetry of the indices, you wind up with a decomposition into three independent parts.

What I'm saying is that you do likewise in SO(3,3). You still have Pab and Qab, but there's no Xa any longer because 'time' is 3-dimensional. (I suppose if you really insisted on it you could use three congruences and define Pab = XaXb + YaYb + ZaZb.) Project each index onto either the timelike subspace or the spacelike subspace. You'll wind up with six independent parts. For example the first one which I wrote as 1111 earlier would be RabcdPaiPbjPckPdl. The next one would be RabcdPaiPbjPckQdl, and so on.

Good points, thanks for the grist :)

-drl
 

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