Riemann tensor and derivatives of ##g_{\mu\nu}##

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the Riemann tensor in relation to the metric tensor \( g_{\mu\nu} \) and its derivatives, particularly focusing on the implications of curvature in spacetime as described in Weinberg's 'Gravitation and Cosmology'. The scope includes theoretical aspects of general relativity and the mathematical reasoning behind the relationships between these tensors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the introduction of second derivatives of the metric tensor affects the properties of the Riemann tensor, suggesting that a locally inertial frame implies \( g_{\mu\nu} = \eta_{\mu\nu} \) and all derivatives vanish.
  • Another participant clarifies that in curved spacetime, \( g_{\mu\nu} = \eta_{\mu\nu} \) can only hold at a single point, and while first derivatives can vanish at that point, second derivatives cannot.
  • A further response emphasizes the importance of understanding that the equality \( g_{\mu\nu} = \eta_{\mu\nu} \) is local and does not extend globally in curved spacetime.
  • One participant provides an analogy using the function \( f(x) = x^2 \) to illustrate the difference between first and second derivatives, relating it to the concept of curvature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the local nature of the inertial frame and the behavior of the metric tensor at a point, but there is some debate regarding the implications of second derivatives and the overall understanding of curvature in relation to the Riemann tensor.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the distinction between local and global properties of the metric tensor in curved spacetime, and the implications of this distinction on the understanding of curvature and the Riemann tensor. There are unresolved aspects regarding the interpretation of second derivatives and their role in the context of curvature.

Einj
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Hello everyone,
I'm studying Weinberg's 'Gravitation and Cosmology'. In particular, in the 'Curvature' chapter it says that the Riemann tensor cannot depend on ##g_{\mu\nu}## and its first derivatives only since:

... at any point we can find a coordinate system in which the first derivatives of the metric tensor vanish, so in this coordinate system the desired tensor must be equal to one of those that can be constructed out of the metric tensor alone, ..., and since this is an equality between tensors it must be true in all coordinate systems.

What I don't understand is how introducing the second derivatives should change this situation. The point is that (and I'm not sure about that...) we can always find a locally inertial frame. In this frame ##g_{\mu\nu}=\eta_{\mu\nu}##, which is constant, and hence all its derivatives should vanish.
What am I doing wrong?

Thanks a lot
 
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The wrong part of your reasoning is that only if spacetime is flat, you can find a coordinate system in which [itex]g_{\mu\nu}=\eta_{\mu\nu}[/itex] globally. In a curved spacetime, its only that there is always a coordinate system that at a given point P, [itex]g_{\mu \nu}(x_p)=\eta_{\mu \nu}[/itex]. The first derivatives at P can be made to vanish too but not the second derivatives.
 
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Einj said:
In this frame ##g_{\mu\nu}=\eta_{\mu\nu}##, which is constant, and hence all its derivatives should vanish.

You left out a key qualifier: in the local inertial frame, ##g_{\mu \nu} = \eta_{\mu \nu}## at a single point (the origin of the frame). At other points, ##g_{\mu \nu} \neq \eta_{\mu \nu}##.
 
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It makes perfect sense! Thanks a lot!
 
If you ever get confused on this again, just think about the function ##f(x)=x^2##. The first derivative of this function ##f'(x)=2x## vanishes at ##x=0## but the second derivative ##f''(x)=2## does not. The first derivative measures a slope, while the second derivative measures concavity - which is roughly analogous to curvature.
 

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