Who is Jacob Barnett and What Makes Him So Special?

[Loren Booda]

Read between the lines: http://slatest.slate.com/id/2289409/"

 

[Andre]

Well it seems that he has that in common with Einstein and Newton

 

[humanino]

He is just great !

 

[Proton Soup]

speaking of Einstein, how come i don't know what he sounds like? his image is ubiquitous in our culture, but he is always silent.

 

[bp_psy]

speaking of Einstein, how come i don't know what he sounds like? his image is ubiquitous in our culture, but he is always silent.

 

[nismaratwork]

speaking of Einstein, how come i don't know what he sounds like? his image is ubiquitous in our culture, but he is always silent.

He shpoke a lot auf German, und Ingles vas not his forte?

 

[fourier jr]

Read between the lines: http://slatest.slate.com/id/2289409/"

A 12-year-old boy who's been taking advanced astrophysics classes at Indiana University since he was eight is trying to pick up where Einstein left off. Jacob Barnett has an IQ of 170, ten points higher than Einstein's. He is also mildly autistic, though the developmental disorder did not prevent him from teaching himself algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus in a week.

he has a developmental disorder?

 

[nismaratwork]

he has a developmental disorder?

Somehow I'm not shocked that someone so mathematically minded would be limited in areas of social expression, but I wonder if you can conclude that this is autism spectrum, or unique to a certain level of genius?

Certainly the performance given goes beyond mere savant behavior.

 

[Proton Soup]

thanks!

He shpoke a lot auf German, und Ingles vas not his forte?

still, you would expect more. kissinger sounds funny too, but i know what he sounds like. einstein was a rock star in his day, he even met marilyn monroe. you'd expect at least a few lectures on tape, something.

 

[nismaratwork]

thanks!



still, you would expect more. kissinger sounds funny too, but i know what he sounds like. einstein was a rock star in his day, he even met marilyn monroe. you'd expect at least a few lectures on tape, something.

From what I've read (Manjti Kumar talks about this) Einstein was not much of a lecturer, very informal an likeable, but, "often unprepared, making frequent errors." although he would ask his class to correct him graciously.

Who knows... the man was a unique kind of genius, maybe language just wasn't his forte, or maybe he had no interest? I truly don't know, but until you mentioned it I'd known about his reticence, but never considered it in the context of, "wow, I've never HEARD the man!"

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing — a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E = mc², in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa. The mass and energy were in fact equivalent, according to the formula mentioned before. This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally.

http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/sound/voice1.mp3

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

He is just great !

Boring!

I want to play NHL 2012!

 

[DR13]

Another Prodigy (physics)

Yeah... it seems like there is another prodigy. I don't know how smart he actually is. I would imagine some is just media hype but he obviously knows his stuff.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110329/ts_yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit

It would be cool for someone to do a study on kids that are labeled as a "prodigy". Then track their lives and see what actually happens to them. I wonder if there would be any correlation between future success and what field the prodigy works in (are physics prodigies more likely to develop than musical ones, or vice versa). Also, what would be the affect of family life: if you do not encourage they may not reach their potential, but over-encouragement leads to burnout.

 

[JaredJames]

All of these child prodigies is all well and good, but I've never heard of them again.

I watched a show a few years back that was going to "track their progress in the coming years" and it showed up once again - with a somewhat different 'cast' of children - and that was it.

I think they're pushed too hard, never get to have a childhood, and then burnout (possibly even down to the eventual freedom that is granted at college / university).

 

[lisab]

An extraordinary kid like him should be given what he needs to achieve his potential, but I doubt splashing around in the media will help him do so.

Impressive kid, though.

 

[Proton Soup]

what is he talking about with light accelerating sideways ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110329/ts_yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit

 

[Proton Soup]

he may get bored with it in a few years and go into horticulture

 

[rootX]

he may get bored with it in a few years and go into horticulture

What is more interesting in horticulture?


(Personally, I have always found a CEO life more interesting than a prodigy life, not for their money but their execution skills .. never really wondered what a prodigy do with his life)

 

[Hepth]

what is he talking about with light accelerating sideways ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110329/ts_yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit

Hes probably thinking of it "accelerating sideways" as curving around massive objects. Not really acceleration. I think he needs to learn GR before people say he's creating a new theory...

 

[Proton Soup]

What is more interesting in horticulture?

it will all be completely new. at the rate he's going, he'll have conquered the math and physics in a few years.

 

[turbo]

What is more interesting in horticulture?

Growing plants, especially vegetables and fruits. There is a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes that most people have NO appreciation of. The food you eat doesn't grow on trees (often, anyway). If your closest connection to food is a meat-case or a produce-cooler at the local supermarket, you have a logical disconnect between what you do to live and what keeps you alive.

 

[rootX]

The point rather was if horticulture is interesting so is painting, music, history, philosophy, literature, economics ...

 

[HeLiXe]

This is really very inspiring :)

 

[Oerg]

How many of physics's greats were child prodigies? It's still too early to tell if he will amount to anything (relative to the most influential of physicists). Of course being a child prodigy in math is a different story.

 

[Newai]

So, when does he get a membership here?

 

[Ivan92]

If anyone is curious about his other videos, here is his Youtube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/mathboysmom#p/a

This kid is just incredible! Amazing how much knowledge this kid has about Physics/Math. Others might question how much he knows, but you have to admit this kid might knows more than maybe a college student who is majoring in Physics. What level of Physics does this kid have? He knows his Quantum Mechanics, but I don't know what year in College you will have to be to learn it.

 

[HeLiXe]

What level of Physics does this kid have?

A few years later, he taught himself calculus, algebra, and geometry in two weeks. By 8, he had left high school, and is currently taking college-level advanced astrophysics classes—while tutoring his older classmates. And he's being recruited for a paid researcher job by Indiana University.

Where I'm at, astrophysics is upper level undergrad stuff, usually third year. I'm not sure if the mention of "advanced" here denotes that he is beyond that though. It sure inspires me to stop being so mediocre

 

[Ivan92]

This kid is in Glenn Beck right now live. I just watched an interview between his parents and Jake. At 14 months, he started emptying out cereal breakfast and when he was able to communicate, his parents asked him why he was doing what he was doing. He said he was trying to figure out the volume of the boxes. Amazing!

Edit #2: Right now he is proving that an infinite series is convergent.

Edit #3:Right now, he is going to explain what he thinks about the Big Bang theory, and Glenn Beck is going to give him a gift. I predict whiteboards LOL.

 

[JaredJames]

This kid is in Glenn Beck right now live. I just watched an interview between his parents and Jake. At 14 months, he started emptying out cereal breakfast and when he was able to communicate, his parents asked him why he was doing what he was doing. He said he was trying to figure out the volume of the boxes. Amazing :)

That would imply he was taught and understood the concept, at 14 months. Good he may be, but sounds a bit far fetched.

 

[Lazernugget]

All of these child prodigies is all well and good, but I've never heard of them again.

I watched a show a few years back that was going to "track their progress in the coming years" and it showed up once again - with a somewhat different 'cast' of children - and that was it.

I think they're pushed too hard, never get to have a childhood, and then burnout (possibly even down to the eventual freedom that is granted at college / university).

I agree.

 

[Leptos]

He'll definitely be well above average, but it's too soon to say whether or not he'll at the top of the field he chooses.

I think Terrence Tao is the ultimate example of a true child prodigy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao

Seriously, is there anyone who has accomplished as much as Tao has at his age?

 

[Simfish]

There are a lot more people who actually have these abilities - it's just that the public school system holds them back. The people you see in the news are lucky - many of them either had unusually flexible school systems, or parents who were willing to fight the school system.

I personally went to an early entrance program myself, and while the students in it were definitely above average (and won many awards for the university), they actually weren't necessarily the smartest people from their old middle schools.

 

[DR13]

There are a lot more people who actually have these abilities - it's just that the public school system holds them back. The people you see in the news are lucky - many of them either had unusually flexible school systems, or parents who were willing to fight the school system.

Do you have any data on this? I have a tough time believing what you say. If a child is teaching himself calculus at age 8, people will realize. Public school teachers arent morons. If most kids are doing 8*7 and another is doing LaPlace transforms, it would be impossible not to notice.

 

[JaredJames]

If most kids are doing 8*7 and another is doing LaPlace transforms, it would be impossible not to notice.

Assuming it's done in front of the teachers that is.

If the kid just does the work given, how is the teacher going to know? Perhaps they do it quicker than the others, but that's hardly going to raise major flags.

 

[DR13]

Assuming it's done in front of the teachers that is.

If the kid just does the work given, how is the teacher going to know? Perhaps they do it quicker than the others, but that's hardly going to raise major flags.

True. But the fact is *someone* will have to notice (kids are monitored after all). If the parents found out, I'm sure they would alert the teachers.

 

[Simfish]

Oftentimes, the teachers aren't even going to encourage further interest in the subject. They'll literally tell you to "go out and have fun/be a child". They've definitely done that to me before (and they actually did care a lot about me) - although I was more of a history prodigy than a math prodigy.

 

[JaredJames]

True. But the fact is *someone* will have to notice (kids are monitored after all). If the parents found out, I'm sure they would alert the teachers.

Noticing and doing something about it aren't the same thing.

That comes down to the individual who discovers the talent.

I've met many people who it's clear wouldn't pick up on it and wouldn't take an interest. You need parents / teachers who will encourage you.

Bear in mind most lower age range teachers aren't qualified to go further than the very basics they are required to teach.

 

[DR13]

Oftentimes, the teachers aren't even going to encourage further interest in the subject. They'll literally tell you to "go out and have fun/be a child". They've definitely done that to me before (and they actually did care a lot about me).

I don't know you personally, but I'm just going to go out and say that there is probably a difference between you (a person that is advanced in math, physics, etc) and a child prodigy. I agree that some smart kids "slip through the cracks in the system". But there is a huge difference a smart kid and a prodigy.

 

[Simfish]

I don't know you personally, but I'm just going to go out and say that there is probably a difference between you (a person that is advanced in math, physics, etc) and a child prodigy. I agree that some smart kids "slip through the cracks in the system". But there is a huge difference a smart kid and a prodigy.

The problem is, though, that it's often hard to distinguish between smart kids and true prodigies. I ultimately ended up learning more about my 8th grade science/history subjects than my 8th grade science and history teachers. They realized that too, but they didn't know how to further my interest in those subjects (and they're not super-curious, so they're not going to read everything I write about them). While I'm not a super-prodigy, it would be difficult for them to distinguish a super-prodigy from me, precisely because of this.

Furthermore, some of these kids aren't necessarily going to score at the 99.99th percentile on standardized tests. There just isn't room to capture that extreme end in ability. And, of course, there are strong students who simply don't excel at standardized tests, especially when they have the emotional maturity of a middle school kid

And even then, it assumes that the teacher will actually vouch for the student. The teacher (or parents) has to go out and contact professors for the student. Most middle school students don't have the resources to contact professors on their own - and even if they did get the idea, it's a scary thing for them to do. Especially since some professors will most likely ignore the emails.

There's another prodigy in a similar situation, by the way: http://sammamish.komonews.com/content/seventh-grader-youngest-ever-invited-summer-program-mit. His parents managed to contact the early entrance program here, who managed to hook him up with several mentors, and later, some professors. There's no way he could do this with a traditional school schedule - his school had to be flexible enough to accommodate things.

And even then, it's quite possible for young students to do respectable undergraduate-level research even if they aren't prodigies, but merely in the 99th percentile. The students who enter the early entrance program here aren't necessarily the brightest people in their schools (they're far above average, but not necessarily top of their class year)

 

[DR13]

The problem is, though, that it's often hard to distinguish between smart kids and true prodigies. I ultimately ended up learning more about my 8th grade science/history subjects than my 8th grade science and history teachers.

And even then, it assumes that the teacher will actually vouch for the student. The teacher has to go out and contact professors for the student. Most middle school students don't have the resources to contact professors on their own - and even if they did get the idea, it's a scary thing for them to do. Especially since some professors will most likely ignore the emails.

It would be nice to see universities do outreach programs. I live in Michigan and never had University of Michigan or Michigan State come to my high school, middle school, or elementary school.

 

[eri]

That's funny, we were a bit more critical of him in the Academic Guidance section. Most of the stuff he's been interviewed as saying reaches about the average knowledge of a college junior in astrophysics. While impressive at his age, he's said some things about cosmology that are simply incorrect and show he's not at all familiar with current research in the field. So he's very smart, obviously, but also getting ahead of himself in what he actually knows about the field, and being encouraged to by reporters who don't know it at all. I can imagine a few profs at Princeton doing the research he's not familiar with probably being a bit embarrassed about the whole thing right now; if he were 18 or 20 instead, no one would be talking to him. He'd just be another undergrad with a potentially crackpot idea.

 

[Simfish]

That's funny, we were a bit more critical of him in the Academic Guidance section. Most of the stuff he's been interviewed as saying reaches about the average knowledge of a college junior in astrophysics. While impressive at his age, he's said some things about cosmology that are simply incorrect and show he's not at all familiar with current research in the field. So he's very smart, obviously, but also getting ahead of himself in what he actually knows about the field, and being encouraged to by reporters who don't know it at all. I can imagine a few profs at Princeton doing the research he's not familiar with probably being a bit embarrassed about the whole thing right now; if he were 18 or 20 instead, no one would be talking to him. He'd just be another undergrad with a potentially crackpot idea.

Haha funny. The thing is this - ANY professor is going to be INTENSELY embarrassed if his protegee is associated in any way with FOX News or Glenn Beck. FOX News/Glenn Beck are almost universally despised in academia.

 

[rootX]

"go out and have fun/be a child"

What is wrong with that?

 

[Simfish]

What is wrong with that?

It means that you have to sit in the same classes as everyone else, so that you learn at the same glacial pace as everyone else (while sucking up state money), while you're not given the chance to learn at a much faster rate by contributing to original research.

You can still go out and have fun/be a child. It's not mutually exclusive with doing what these prodigies did (I can testify that early entrance students have loads of fun). What is mutually exclusive with fun+research+acceleration, though, is doing those *and* sitting in the same classes as everyone else.

 

[rootX]

It means that you have to sit in the same classes as everyone else, so that you learn at the same glacial pace as everyone else (while sucking up state money), while you're not given the chance to learn at a much faster rate by contributing to original research.

You can still go out and have fun/be a child. It's not mutually exclusive with doing what these prodigies did (I can testify that early entrance students have loads of fun). What is, though, is doing those *and* sitting in the same classes as everyone else.

Having a good normal physical and mental healthy life is more important than research.

Nonetheless,
1) You would have to convince me that people who are given opportunities do actually contribute more to research than normal people
2) You would also have to convince me that these children who do accelerated studies do have normal social life as others and it doesn't harm them. Your testification is not sufficient.

 

[Proton Soup]

Hes probably thinking of it "accelerating sideways" as curving around massive objects. Not really acceleration. I think he needs to learn GR before people say he's creating a new theory...

it's all good. screwing up is the best way to learn

 

[Simfish]

All the papers are here: http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/research/

1) You would have to convince me that people who are given opportunities do actually contribute more to research than normal people

Average GPA among early entrance students here is 3.7. Also, *half* of the Goldwater Scholars from the university come from the early entrance program.

From the "Love and Work" paper: ". As mentioned earlier, EEPers have won a
disproportionately large number of prestigious scholar-
ships and research opportunities at LIW and the major-
ity regularly appear on the Dean's List. The average
EEP GPA is consistently about 3.7 while the average
UW GPA is about 3.0. "

2) You would also have to convince me that these children who do accelerated studies do have normal social life as others and it doesn't harm them. Your testification is not sufficient.

""Perhaps the most important conclusion to be drawn
from the current study is that early university entrants
do not fit the stereotype of the socially isolated,
unhappy
"nerd."
Yes, the respondents in the current
study value intelligence highly. Yes, they seek a high
degree of intellectual satisfaction and challenge in all
aspects of their lives, personal and professional. Yet
overall the participants in the current study revealed
themselves to be well-rounded, balanced individuals on
whom the EEP continues to exeft a profound and over-
whelmingly positive influence.""

 

[lisab]

It means that you have to sit in the same classes as everyone else, so that you learn at the same glacial pace as everyone else (while sucking up state money), while you're not given the chance to learn at a much faster rate by contributing to original research.

I'll tell you my daughter's experience in first grade.

She was a very early reader (3 years old) and by 1st grade, she could read at the 6th or 7th grade level. Like a lot of smart kids, she wasn't challenged in school - there were no programs for kids like her. I was getting very frustrated with the school for basically ignoring her.

Her kindergarten teacher told me what was really happening. Yes, she was being ignored, and it was because of the WASL (a standardized test students have to pass here in the state of Washington). She said, you can group students in three general groups: those that can pass the test today with no preparation from the teacher; those that can pass if they are properly taught; and those that will only pass if heroic measures are taken.

Teachers have only so many resources (i.e., teacher assistant hours assigned to them), and so they are forced to do what's expedient: focus on the middle group - the ones that will be able to pass, given enough attention. The other two groups...shrug.

My daughter was judged to be in the first group (the 'smart' kids).

Now, this is all 'unofficial' - the teachers don't plan to ignore smart kids. They just don't have enough resources to give every kid in the class what is needed. And I understand it - if I was a teacher and was going to be evaluated by how many of my students pass that test, I may have made the same decision.

Not sure if this sort of thing is widespread in places that use standardized tests.

 

[Simfish]

I'll tell you my daughter's experience in first grade.

She was a very early reader (3 years old) and by 1st grade, she could read at the 6th or 7th grade level. Like a lot of smart kids, she wasn't challenged in school - there were no programs for kids like her. I was getting very frustrated with the school for basically ignoring her.

Her kindergarten teacher told me what was really happening. Yes, she was being ignored, and it was because of the WASL (a standardized test students have to pass here in the state of Washington). She said, you can group students in three general groups: those that can pass the test today with no preparation from the teacher; those that can pass if they are properly taught; and those that will only pass if heroic measures are taken.

Teachers have only so many resources (i.e., teacher assistant hours assigned to them), and so they are forced to do what's expedient: focus on the middle group - the ones that will be able to pass, given enough attention. The other two groups...shrug.

My daughter was judged to be in the first group (the 'smart' kids).

Now, this is all 'unofficial' - the teachers don't plan to ignore smart kids. They just don't have enough resources to give every kid in the class what is needed. And I understand it - if I was a teacher and was going to be evaluated by how many of my students pass that test, I may have made the same decision.

Not sure if this sort of thing is widespread in places that use standardized tests.

Thanks for the anecdote - I appreciated it. I agree - we can't really blame the teachers for what they do most of the time - they have way too much to do (and honestly, I have to be grateful to my teachers for having good intentions, even if they did not truly know what was best for me).

All I'm saying is that with the growth of all sorts of free online tutorials, smart kids don't necessarily benefit from going to school. And so it's often counterproductive to force them to go through school, when they could learn much faster through other means that can be very cheap, given all the online tutorials that are now available.

 

[Proton Soup]

I'll tell you my daughter's experience in first grade.

She was a very early reader (3 years old) and by 1st grade, she could read at the 6th or 7th grade level. Like a lot of smart kids, she wasn't challenged in school - there were no programs for kids like her. I was getting very frustrated with the school for basically ignoring her.

Her kindergarten teacher told me what was really happening. Yes, she was being ignored, and it was because of the WASL (a standardized test students have to pass here in the state of Washington). She said, you can group students in three general groups: those that can pass the test today with no preparation from the teacher; those that can pass if they are properly taught; and those that will only pass if heroic measures are taken.

Teachers have only so many resources (i.e., teacher assistant hours assigned to them), and so they are forced to do what's expedient: focus on the middle group - the ones that will be able to pass, given enough attention. The other two groups...shrug.

My daughter was judged to be in the first group (the 'smart' kids).

Now, this is all 'unofficial' - the teachers don't plan to ignore smart kids. They just don't have enough resources to give every kid in the class what is needed. And I understand it - if I was a teacher and was going to be evaluated by how many of my students pass that test, I may have made the same decision.

Not sure if this sort of thing is widespread in places that use standardized tests.

this is completely unnecessary and probably stems from some idea of mainstreaming or using the smart kids to help tutor the slower ones. when i came thru public ed, by second grade we were divided into six tiers. each tier started off as a color, but soon it was obvious you were in groups 1 thru 6. by at least fourth grade, we were changing classes for subjects throughout the day. and each group only had class with its own group. throughout the day, teachers had groups of students with different abilities, different handicaps, and proceeding at different paces. maybe that is not politically correct now, but it seems to work decently IME.